(This is related to User’s Guide to Gulliver’s Sukhumvit Soi 5 Part 1)
New to Thailand, somehow I fortuitously wandered into Gulliver’s Soi 5.
After wandering into Gulliver’s somehow I ended up adopted by some of the long time successful Gulliver’s longballers. (see User’s Guide to Gulliver’s Sukhumvit Soi 5 Part 1 for an explanation of the difference between long and short ballers)
At the time, I was so fresh it still amazed me that I could bang any Biergarten girl that took my fancy, was still burning clock cycles guessing if particular Nana Disco girls would go home for money, and was still paying off the small time scams that are the staples of the financially successful TG Short Ball specialist.
Gulliver’s at the time was a completely different animal than today and an eye opener for me.
Back then there were 6 or 7 loose confederations of girls that owned different areas of the bar. There were groups that occupied the front pool room, a couple of groups who owned the bar area by the big screen TV, and a couple more that hung out around the back pool room.
Each group of girls mainly stuck to their territory, peacefully coexisted, and were there every night.
Any given night featured differing line ups but each group had a small core of girls who showed up early, laid claim to the best tables, and acted as de facto group leaders.
Many of the girls not only hooked up with guys they met in Gulliver’s but also had rosters of rotating regulars whom they would girlfriend when their guys were in town. Most of these regular’s were not Hometown Heroes getting scammed out of their money but experienced farang who had been around Thailand a long time, had tons of experience, and knew how things really worked. When they were in town, they hung with their Gulliver’s longballer, did not necessarily remain monogamous, gave the girls good money and really and truly enjoyed themselves.
Watching these girls operate what struck me was that everyone, not just the guys, was having fun—shitloads of fun. The girls were not putting on an act, they truly enjoyed drinking, getting drunk, going to clubs, dancing, gambling on pool, and most of all they really enjoyed the banging and especially the getting off part of banging.
(see Fresh Ideas About How to Really Really Really Have Fun in Thailand and The Dummies Guide to Giving Thai Girls Money Part 1)
The guys knew and were comfortable with what the girls did when they left town and really put the girls through their paces during their visits. To this day, it still amazes me how much some of the guys could drink and smoke, the drugs they took, how hard and long they could party, and how much they enjoyed themselves. It was my first close contact with Australians and their propensity for drinking and I am still not sure some of the things I saw actually happened.
Being friends with these longballers is where I got my first glimpse behind the curtain.
(See In Defense of Thai Women Part 1 and In Defense of Thai Women— the Men Who Date Them Part 2)
Everyday for months, I would start the evening popping into Gulliver’s, make the rounds of the various girl confederations, hang with my longballing friends for a couple of hours, and see if anything interesting was on the agenda.
Some evenings there was Fresh Produce, other evenings one of the girls would have a birthday party replete with cute associates, sometimes Gulliver’s was used as a meet up point and around 10PM everyone would frequently head to a disco, club, or other venue, on other nights everyone would get bored and scatter around midnight but every night the prospect of variety and action made it one great adventure.
(See Night Crawlers, Bottom Feeders, Break in Jobs, and the Fresh Produce Market)
Being friends I was in the inner circle and got the latest gossip—who was banging who, how they were banging, what was being paid, who was borrowing, who was paying off debts, who was taking what drugs, who was sick, who was in trouble and why, and who was in Hong Kong, Singapore, Hua Hin, or Koh Samui getting paid.
From the very beginning, I saw TG’s on The Reservation as ordinary people with ordinary desires, ordinary aspirations, and ordinary problems and related to them as normal everyday people with the misfortune of being born in a Third World country.
I saw the girls who had succeeded and moved to The World with their farang, girls who had slowly amassed significant bankrolls and semi-retired, girls on the glide path to financial independence, and girls who had moved on, given up life on The Reservation, gotten normal jobs and lived normal lives.
I also saw the girls who struggled and eventually gave up. The ones addicted to drugs, addicted to gambling, the ones who got sick, who piddled away their money, and the ones who lacked the personality, physical appearance, or confidence to compete successfully for the small pool of eligible farang and spent days and months banging their heads against the brick wall hoping for Prince Charming to arrive on the white horse while steadily grinding themselves into physical and financial oblivion. This is how I became aware that for Thai girls there is usually no BBD (Bigger Better Deal).
(See The Dummies Guide to Giving Thai Girls Money Part 1).
Of course, I messed around with many of these long ballers. They were good looking, sexy, knew how to dress, and present themselves, but more important they were experienced around men and knew what men wanted and how to please them. Hanging and banging with these girls was pure pleasure.
They didn’t bitch, moan, gripe, or complain, didn’t expect, request, or demand monogamy, and were always down for and knew how to have or manufacture a good time. They were experienced and knowledgeable, knew how to please in and out of the bedroom, and most importantly really and truly enjoyed The Life.
And it was surprisingly affordable. Compared to the cost of having fun in The World it was for all intents and purposes free. Relative to the cost of airfare, lodgings, food, etc. the money I was giving the girls was only a small percentage of the money I was spending. Compared to ST/LT from GoGo and Bierbars, I was saving money hanging with the Gulliver’s girls even with the cost of drinks included. And this did not take into account that many of the Gulliver’s girl’s were just as good looking as the best GoGo girls and way waay waaay more fun.
Being in the inner circle, I was privy to all sorts of inside information about girls particularly the ones who were temporarily cycling through Gulliver’s. I knew which girls were new to the scene, which girls had just lost long time sponsors and were on the hunt, which girls were normal girls desperate for this month’s rent, what girls wouldn’t do Arabs or Africans, which ones were under aged, what type of sex they preferred, what they did and did not do in the bedroom, and what they would do in the bedroom for the right price, with the right guy, under the right circumstances.
My longballing TG friends even the ones I was occasionally banging were always happy acting as middlemen and dealing me their friends and associates, so, of course, I also messed around with numerous girls who weren’t regulars on The Reservation but were either new to the scene, were there looking for long term relationships, who desperately needed 20,000 baht for some reason, or just liked the action. This is where I started my education with normal Thai girls—-although the once in awhile only when they are desperate for cash Gulliver’s girls were not what I would consider normal Thai girls these days.
This is also how I became comfortable giving Thai girls money. Besides just ST/LT fees I was approached for loans and outright gifts from many Gulliver’s girls that befriended me—even the ones I had never banged. At first, it felt funny giving/lending girl’s money but because I had good reliable information about the girl’s real lives, I did it, slowly became more comfortable, and got better at it over time.
This is also where I learned how to, how not to, and how to have fun giving Thai girls money. Knowing what sexual shenanigans many of the girls were already involved in really expanded the envelope of when it came to lending money.
(see The Dummies Guide to Giving Thai Girls Money Part 1)
I also tagged along on numerous group trips to Conrad, Spasso, CM2, The Bed, Q-bar etc. and learned what was going on in these places, how the system worked, the underlying economics, and why girls went there. This was my first experience going off The Reservation although today I would consider these places firmly on The Reservation.
Having the action explained to me and seeing TG’s working these places provided the first clue that there was more to The Thailand Girl Scene than GoGo bars, Nana Parking Lot, and the Biergarten. It was also my first introduction to the more sophisticated, higher class Thai girls you don’t see working the GoGo’s—-girls with the looks, personalities, and sophistication to survive and sometimes prosper on their own.
(see What Happened to the CM2, Places to Avoid 1-Qbar, Places to Avoid 2-Conrad and Spasso and 2 TG Scams Newbies Fall for, Places to Avoid 2-Conrad and Spasso Part 2)
Being friends with these longballers and being privileged to see behind the curtain is how I got my first inkling of the true largely unrealized potential of The Thailand Girl Scene and realized there might be a whole wonderful world off The Reservation.
It is also when I realized that some of the advice expats dispense on the internet is shit, most of the stories you read on the internet are “for entertainment purposes only” , and the internet version of The Thailand Girl Scene and the real down and dirty reality are completely different.
The day to day reality of what I was seeing, experiencing and hearing about at Gulliver’s had little in common with numerous expat descriptions on the internet and the advice and strategies espoused by expats on the internet were sometimes comical and totally out of touch.
When I meet or read expats who think of TG’s on The Reservation as just “cunts, whore, and prostitutes” I realize that they are barely scratching the surface of The Thailand Girl Scene and have never really gotten to know any TG’s or learned at all about their lives. These self professed experts are really only expert at self promotion.
When I meet or read expats who characterize all TG’s on The Reservation as scammers interested solely in money, I suspect they have never participated in or experienced the full spectrum of girls and experiences The Reservation offers. The cartoonish stereotypes which form the bread and butter of one popular Thailand blogger is either always good for a laugh or makes you wonder when the last time, if ever, they had any first hand experience with TG’s on The Reservation.
When I get subjected to expats who go on and on bitching and moaning about starfishing, poor customer service, and constant day to day bad banging experiences, I can only conclude they are just not sharking The Reservation skillfully—or are just bitter blowhards who enjoy bitching and moaning regardless of cause. The problem lies with them not the selection of available girls.
Gulliver’s also made me realize that being knowledgeable and skillful about The Thailand Girl Scene paid big benefits—not only in minimizing costs but also in finding and opening whole new fun vista’s that many long time expats who post on the internet seems to miss, are totally unaware of, or for some unfathomable reason choose not to participate in. This is an idea that saves even more money and leads to even larger benefits when you get off The Reservation and start hanging with real normal Thai girls and G-Girls.
Gulliver’s also made me realize that approaching Thai Girls on The Reservation as ordinary people not as prostitutes was not only the human thing to do but also the fun maximizing thing to do.
Hanging with a band of TG’s on the hunt creates a way more fun and varied Thailand experience than just ST/LT’ing from GoGo’s and places like the Biergarten and Nana parking lot.
Which brings us to The Death of Gulliver’s.
It is impossible to express the profound sadness filling my heart when I visit today’s Gulliver’s.
It started a year ago with the appearance of a few small groups of Africans, was under full way in January, and mostly completed by this summer.
Instead of a Gulliver’s chock full of multiple groups of sexy fun experienced career longballers, mountains of girls cycling through desperate for short term cash, and scores of Fresh Produce breaking into the scene, today’s Gulliver’s has been laid waste by gangs of scamming Africans.
The back room and the bar by the big screen TV are devoid of TG’s most nights and, only in the front pool room are there a hardy remnant of the multiple confederations of girls that used to populate the place. What’s left is a small cadre of fat pudgy overweight TG Arab specialists.
The food is still good, the prices are still reasonable, the service staff still friendly, and the aircon is still excellent, but the girls are mostly gone and with the girls gone the farang have mostly left the place too.
It’s a chicken and egg disaster. With no girls there is no reason for farang to patronize Gullivers. With no farang there is no reason for longballing TG’s to make it their everyday base of operations. As the girls are pushed out, the paying customers bleed away, until what is left is the current social and financial wasteland.
Over the last year, Gulliver’s management let the whole thing needlessly and tragically unravel.
The African gangs come in groups, stand around buying little, accost farang for phone numbers and contact information, and try to befriend unsuspecting tourists and bilk them out of their money using the standard toolbox of cheesy scams.
And now there is the under current of potential violence at Gulliver’s. These African guys are not the happy go lucky low class euro trash soccer fans that you sometimes see drunk and looking for a fight.
These African guys are professional criminals from countries with no legal restraints on killing and mayhem where the only restraint is their internal cost/benefit analysis of how much money you have vs. the chances and consequences of getting caught—which in Thailand is not likely and not much. Only an idiot would spend night after night around these guys where they could check you out, size you up, and have time to figure out how to fleece or rob you.
They also accost the Thai girls and in the normal Thai way instead of fighting back most of the Thai girls have simply moved on to other less confrontational venues.
And the great tragedy is it never had to be.
In Thailand, management has way more degrees of freedom than in The World. Any business that excluded customers based on race or national origin courts a big lawsuit and big damages in The World.
In Thailand, management can do what it wants. Many hotels and apartments simply exclude Indians and Arabs. They put a sign in the lobby and post it on their website. It is legal.
There is nothing preventing management from turning away, kicking out, and excluding the gangs of African scammers except lack of resolve.
I don’t mean excluding blacks in general. I mean blocking the gangs of African scammers from entering , setting up shop, and conducting business inside Gulliver’s.
Anyone with an ounce of common sense and discernment can distinguish in 2 seconds between normal everyday blacks including those of African nationality and the members of these gangs so a policy of selective exclusion would not be impossible to implement.
Maybe it is not too late.
Gulliver’s management could develop a backbone and put a stop to the long slide and just say no the bands of African scammers.
The owners of Gulliver’s must like money so why don’t they just do it?
It seems such an obvious and simple thing to do if they want to save their business. I can only speculate that they are afraid of some type of violent response if they try it.
Summary: “I used to like Gullivers, and met some nice whores there. They let me sit with them and take them to expensive nightclubs as long as I paid for everything. This makes me better than you, and better than the entire Internet. I don’t like Gullivers any more though, because it’s full of Africans. The manager should put up a sign saying ‘NO AFRICANS’. The End.”
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
Thanks for that, Big Beer Belly. I suspect I won’t be alone in skipping directly to the comments without wading through yet *another* coma-inducing BBK piece, and your précis is welcome. Note to the Mango Brothers - I know BBK’s pieces are good for hits, but that’s because of the comments, which I am sure get more attention and interest than the piece itself. Can’t we take a rest from BBK for a while? Like, forever? It’s not funny any more.
View all comments by Pants Elk
Nice story, I enjoyed it!
First question - Kenny, are there any OTHER places where these girls have fled to that you have found?
I too have had my experience in Thailand almost entirely positive, yet all you read on the ‘net is so saturated in negativity that I was beginning to wonder if I was insane! It was really freaking me out. My experiences were so radically different from what seemed the norm - not even the norm, but almost the entirety! - of people posting on the net that I just couldn’t make it out.
What was going on? Was I insane or was EVERYONE else just nutso? This site seems a bit different, but for instance on Stickman 99.9999% of the Readers Submissions are hideous tales that bear NO relation to the Thailand I was encountering on a daily basis. All the supposed Thai racism and scamming and evil - where was it? I just couldn’t see it! Sure, every now and then one runs across a less savory character, but that’s hardly the majority.
What I don’t get is that Stickman himself seems to have a good head on his shoulders and seems to be a fairly competent guy, yet he frequently endorses in his comments these stories and his whole site seems designed ro present and endorse a generally VERY negative view of Thailand. It just doesn’t make sense. It’s not the Thailand I know.
It’s nice to read this post because it was a strange feeling thinking so completely, totally differently from seemingly every one else living in Thailand! I was beginning to doubt my sanity.
View all comments by Gordon K
@ BBK - You tipped me off to a bunch of great stuff on my last trip. Great times, I owe you a drink, or more. That said, the best thing I have to say about Gulliver’s is that the aircon is really really good. Beyond that, it’s just a bar with some girls shooting pool and the football on the TV.
@ BBB - A bit reductive perhaps? Anyway, don’t want to ruffle any feathers. I’ll be in BKK in Jan or Feb but I’m so fucking scared to open my mouth thanks to this blog I’ll probably say I’m some guy named Frank at the Mango instead of owning up to who I am. So, drinks are on Frank some day soon.
View all comments by tosh
BBB, PE, thanks for sharing your most interesting point of view. You didn’t state it a hundred time already so thanks, really…
BBK, thanks for another good read. Like Gordon, i wonder where they’re gone… We could point them to the mango ^^
View all comments by Louk
So were have all these girls gone? What’s there new watering hole.
View all comments by Donger
If you don’t like BBK’s posts don’t read them. I agree with Louk and I’m tired of the back and forth. Like today, there was a mock’ing of BBK on the UAE Post that I deleted. Similar deletions will be made in the future. Let’s keep it relevant to the Post as to not bore everyone with this same argument over and over.
I don’t like BBK Posts anymore but many people do so I don’t see a need to discontinue them. Just ignore the content, I do.
View all comments by pmmp
gordon - there is a ton of negativity on the net.
I think stick will post a reader submission from anyone on anything except for maybe when he disagrees with it. We get sent a fair amount we never publish. Some are like the hate posts where people use the net to dish on thais, girls or a business/business owner.
It is hard to find good relevant info and things change so much for the most part but we try to give up the goods we know and get as many people as we can to write about what they experience. some good- some bad.
as u can deduce BBKK has strong opinions a lot of which I don’t share but they are still opinions.
tosh - gullivers just used to be better. simple as that. nigerians one reason. cocky owners another. it is a bummer since in the glory days it was a fun joint.
please do NOT feel u cannot state your opinions, send in posts or whatever. This is not a complainers blog. the audience is as big as ever with record traffic. hard to please everyone all of the time. we try. we delete shit comments. dont post crappy things and try to evolve. I will be the first to say it is not easy.
so please stay engaged. we enjoy your presence.
louk - who knows really. there is not a good freelancer joint daytime at all besides the beer garden but g girls would not go there.
so yeah - where have they gone?
View all comments by sideshowBOB
I often wonder why people who dislike the post bag the write on a personal level, All of us have an opinion, no one is saying that they are right or wrong, I read the blog for information on the night life etc as I have limited time this saves me time and money, I may not like a bar or gogo that some else likes thats life I come here to enjoy myself, so let’s enjoy the post and not bag people
see you all soon
dave
View all comments by dave thomas
Excellent Rant! I have had a very similar experience! The Death of Guliver’s is very sad story indeed.
View all comments by Radicaron
pmmp. Poke it.
Thanks BBB for your post. I stopped reading the original post when I saw the word ‘Reservation’. Too boring.
However, this is a subject that lots of people are talking about, so I’ll not leave a comment that has ‘delete happy pmmp’ busting my balls.
One thing I will say is that these guys are NIGERIAN.
Having spent time in Nigeria, I can honestly say that a sign up outside your bar saying ‘No Africans’ will most probably land you in a world of shit. I think the best thing to do is to make the place unattractive to them. Remove bar stools from where they sit… give them crap meals (if ordered). Change the music in the back room to Cliff Richard etc..etc.. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
I would strongly recommend not going toe-to-toe with these fuckers. And it’s unfair to address this crown as the ‘Africans’. That’s like saying all the Europeans are wankers, when really, it’s just the French.
View all comments by Daywalker
Good post BBK.
Needed to be said.
View all comments by jack dawson
Pmmp and Sideshow Bob,
I am also tired of the same old thing over and over again.
But I refuse to be shouted down, pushed around, or bullied by the Haters.
It is that simple.
It has all been said over and over again in the comments but they keep shouting, pushing, and bullying and I continue and will continue to refuse to be shouted down, pushed around, or bullied.
The haters are just going to have to accept it and live with it.
Call it the American Way.
So here we go again.
————————————————-
Bangkok Bad Boy and Pants Elk.
The expats who live full time in Bangkok and make their money in Thailand have different preferences, unlimited time, and different budget constraints than many of the people who read the blog. (recent example the post by Fender).
The expats who live full time Bangkok and make their money in Thailand utilize the resources of The Thailand Girl Scene to enjoy themselves in a different ways because of this.
Others with different preferences, different financial constraints, and less time utilize the resources of The Thailand Girl Scene in their own way to maximize their fun.
Neither is right, neither way is better, nobody is putting anyone down or saying anyone is being stupid, or making mistakes.
I will speak on behalf of 99% of the readers and say that writing the same comment 500 times, over and over again, in the comments to every post got old a long time ago.
Nobody cares anymore. Nobody is paying attention. And if it ever was mildly amusing it stopped being so a few hundred repetitions ago.
There are people who have posted and continue to post who I disagree with, who I think are full of shit, and who write stuff that I have zero interest in. I am sure it is the same for all the regular readers.
When this stuff is posted, if I think I have something to contribute I comment. Usually, I just let the people who agree or find it interesting enjoy the post and write what they want in the comments. Why should it bother me when others have a party and have fun?
Muzzling the negativity when someone takes the time to post is just good manners.
So if you want to continue flailing away to no effect while embarrassing yourselves and irritating everyone else who got tired a long time ago go ahead.
Freedom of Speech.
Tolerance and respect for the ideas of others.
You seem to have a problem with these ideas, but I am all for them.
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
BBK- finally a concise post and really on target. to quote JD “Needed to be said”
I was a regular at Gulivers going there early each day to shoot pool with the afternoon long ballers. It was my favorite stop. Stopped going several months ago because of the Africans and have not shot a game of pool there in months because of them. They are loud, unpleasant and to top it off they cannot shoot a decent game.
This is a real loss to “the scene” I was hoping that the New Mango would fill the void but to date it has not
Nice Post BBK sad as the truth is
View all comments by 8 Ball
“The owners of Gulliver’s must like money so why don’t they just do it?”
The transition stage, if Gulliver’s management ever decided to go that route, would surely take time and would cost a lot of money, that’s even if it worked. Maybe it’s just to much of a gamble?
Post was a bit long-winded for me but I’m always open ears to other peoples opinions… and so should everyone else be.
View all comments by IC1
@BBK: Once again, you spectacularly miss the point.
You are not scorned because of jealousy, hatred, or anything of the sort. Saying so 500 times does not make it true.
You are scorned by those who know Bangkok because you write what is at best complete drivel, often with little to no bearing on reality.
The part I object to the most is this air of pontificating superiority. What is it that you believe makes you superior to everyone else?
Sorry, but you’re just a dull tourist. A dull tourist with a superiority complex.
You try to carry an air of sophistication, which comes horribly unstuck every time you abuse the English language, invent your own idiotic and unneccesary terminology, or drop in an (incorrect) French phrase in a doomed attempt to impress.
You absolutely must have the last word in any exchange, although it’s nigh-on impossible to get you to respond to a direct criticism. Your “responses” answer questions that were never asked, and even recently you admitted to outright lying in one of your tales of supposed success. There are still a few more admissions due, as we both know, but I won’t hold my breath.
So what is it, BBK, that makes you superior to the rest of us? Is it your Quality Fabrics? Your encyclopaedic knowledge of the world’s dullest casino game? Or is it that you’re so irrelevant and unimportant in The World that you’re determined to reinvent yourself as a legendary authority on Bangkok? Because it’s the only place left?
Trouble is, most of the time you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re a tourist who’s been to some bars, and seem to believe that this makes you an expert.
It doesn’t.
It makes you an idiot with a keyboard, who is ruining what was once an enjoyable website.
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
Gordon K,
Like I wrote in the post, my initial experience with the internet was the same as yours.
What dominated the internet did not match my experiences.
You can read the various posts and comments and see why I think this disconnect exists.
I never found TG’s to be the uniformly heartless, emotionless, calculating scammers that are the bread and butter of internet posts.
The bad banging experiences that are the staple of the internet were and still are the exception. As my experience has grown I have learned how to head most of them off at a very early stage and only get caught occasionally these days.
I have always found TG’s including the one on The Reservation to be mostly warm fun good hearted people who are immensely fun to hang and run with.
The same goes for most of the farang I have met on The Reservation too.
Nothing has changed as my time in Thailand has accumulated.
In fact, the longer I am in Thailand the more fun it gets. I learn more about the place, discover new places to enjoy, and it is not even close to getting old or played out.
I hope it never does.
——————————
Tosh,
Thanks for the shout out.
You are right that today there is no reason to patronize Gulliver’s. If you never enjoyed the place before the girls were all driven out it is hard to envision how great it was.
The good times and girls are gone.
What is sad is how great it used to be and that it never had to end.
I realize you are half joking when you say you are going to assume a pseudonym the next time you are in Bangkok and visit The Mango but there is a kernel of truth in what you write.
I used to feel the same way visiting the Mango as Norm and Cliffy did in the sitcom Cheers but ….
BigBabyKenny
P.S. I nominate for the theme from Cheers as the unofficial anthem for The Mango.
——————————————–
Making your way in the world today
takes everything you’ve got.
Taking a break from all your worries,
sure would help alot.
Wouldn’t you like to get away?
Sometimes you want to go
where everybody knows your name,
and they’re always glad you came;
You want to be where you can see,
Our troubles are all the same;
You want to be where everybody knows your name.
Be glad there’s one place in the world
Where everybody knows your name,
And they’re always glad you came;
You want to go where people know,
People are all the same;
You want to go where everybody knows your name.
View all comments by BigBabKenny
@BBK-I don’t personally like your writing style, but do enjoy reading what you write.If BBK is so shit against everyone else, then maybe more other people should send in their stories. Just a thought!
View all comments by AUK
Bangkok Bad Boy,
Let me quote my pontificating self.
“I will speak on behalf of 99% of the readers and say that writing the same comment 500 times, over and over again, in the comments to every post got old a long time ago.
Nobody cares anymore. Nobody is paying attention. And if it ever was mildly amusing it stopped being so a few hundred repetitions ago.
Muzzling the negativity when someone takes the time to post is just good manners.
So if you want to continue flailing away to no effect while embarrassing yourselves and irritating everyone else who got tired a long time ago go ahead.
Freedom of Speech.
Tolerance and respect for the ideas of others.
You seem to have a problem with these ideas, but I am all for them.”
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
Daywalker,
I don’t have enough experience to distinguish between the different types of Africans so I don’t know if they are Nigerians or Ethiopians.
I do agree with you that “going toe to toe with these fuckers” is dangerous.
When they are in Gulliver’s they are there to conduct business and their business is finding people with money and taking it from them.
If you spend enough time around them and give them a good enough look, they are going to find an opportunity to take their shot.
If taking their shot involves violence and you getting hurt or even killed it won’t bother them one bit.
Anyone with any sense will make an effort to stay away from these guys especially in a place like Thailand where the police are a joke.
This isn’t rocket science. You think Gulliver’s would figure it out.
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
BUT..he desrves props for bringing up the subject matter of THIS piece because it is an important issue because this takeover of Gullivers is a major encrouchment on “farang territory” not unlike what the Japanese have done previously in certain NEP spots.
So in THIS case I say give credit where credit is due.
View all comments by 8 Ball
@8ball: Sure, except it wasn’t even news six months ago, has been covered elsewhere, and this piece added nothing other than ego-stroking more misguided than the Mars Climate Orbiter, and repeated links to 10 (TEN) of BBK’s other submissions and none of anyone else’s.
And he has the gall to bitch about “self promotion”.
Farewell Pants Elk, you will be missed. BBK wouldn’t.
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
“BBK- finally a concise post” ahhh, yer.
Have to agree with the haters here. BBK really is an annoying piece of work
View all comments by jim
“Nobody cares anymore. Nobody is paying attention. And if it ever was mildly amusing it stopped being so a few hundred repetitions ago.”
I might be just a French wanker (Hi Daywalker!) but I do care! I’ve enjoyed thoroughly BBB’s last comment, perfect rhetoric.
Pants Elk - “Dude, your a friggin genious!”, love your humo(u)r!
PS: I can’t “wrap my head around” this whole “Reservation” thing. Does anyone know what it stands for?
View all comments by mart
Bangkok Bad Boy,
Let me quote my pontificating self quoting my pontificating self.
“I will speak on behalf of 99% of the readers and say that writing the same comment 500 times, over and over again, in the comments to every post got old a long time ago.
Nobody cares anymore. Nobody is paying attention. And if it ever was mildly amusing it stopped being so a few hundred repetitions ago.
Muzzling the negativity when someone takes the time to post is just good manners.
So if you want to continue flailing away to no effect while embarrassing yourselves and irritating everyone else who got tired a long time ago go ahead.
Freedom of Speech.
Tolerance and respect for the ideas of others.
You seem to have a problem with these ideas, but I am all for them.”
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
Mart: Bonjour.
The Reservation is something the person at the hotel/restaurant asks you if you have before they let you in.
View all comments by Daywalker
For me, perhaps the fault is with the headline. Because it took 41 paragraphs to actually get to the topic of the headline.
By contrast, the “death of Gulliver’s” was handled in just 22 paragraphs.
I counted three time sin the first 2/3 of the story where you basically repeated yourself or the same theme.
The last 1/3 of the story was direct and concise. Maybe, as BBB asserts, it isn’t current news, but it pretty much was to me, as I’v eonly been to Gulliver’s once, in the afternoon, and pulled a farm fresh girl with no sign or intervention of Africans.
So, my point here is:
The story is simply badly written. No point in spending THAT much time telling readers how it was when it aint that way anymore. Cut the top 66% of the story to 10% and fill up the rest with the actual point.
View all comments by Pattaya Ghost
@mart: I think it’s an acronym:
Retarded, Elephantine, Stubborn “Expert” Reckons Veterans Are Totally Ignorant Of Nightlife.
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
Pattaya Ghost,
How about just changing the title to:
“Why I Will Miss Gulliver’s Now That It is Gone.”
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
BBK; I don’t like the condensending tone in your articles.
When you proclaim that:”These self professed experts are really only expert at self promotion”, it seems to me that you are talking about yourself.
View all comments by hanuman
Perhaps this will all blow over, but the constant sniping reminds me of the flame war during MangoSauce’s final throes. If memory serves me well, some of the participants were some of the same as now.
It’s tedious boys. Give it a rest. Reminds me of high school clique clashes.
If you have specific comments to the contrary about specific points of fact from BBK, by all means post them. Leave the critiques of writing style and perceived author’s attitude to Times Literary Critic. He has the gravitas to pull it off, not to mention a closet-full of quality fabric slacks with matching smoking jackets.
View all comments by Rene Descartes
BBK - How about just posting a title and a title only in the future?
Ghost - it’s badly written because BBK does like everyone else, he never reads his posts.
DW - sorry, just wanking again…
BBB - I agree, but with reservations!
René - Pants, c’est toi?
View all comments by mart
Rene is not Pants.
Pants has gone.
How many more must follow?
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
Just out of interest. Has anyone had any first hand bad experiences with these African scammers who “accost farang for phone numbers and contact information”?
I go to Gullivers quite a bit and have never had any problems. Had some decent conversations with a few of them
View all comments by jim
So once again BBK has ruffled some feathers.
His posts aside he probably is a decent guy and has alot of fun in bangkok.
That being said he does bring with his posts a strange vision of “the real bangkok’ that most others who do live here full time/ work and go out almost every night never really see. Does he just see things differently or has he just not spent that much time in bankok?
Sometimes he reminds me of the guy that walks into a bar happens to meet the owner and 10 minutes later he is telling the owner how much he knows about things and how things really work becuase he’s been in bangkok 3 months, makes me almost spit out my drink in laughter every time.
BBk: You really need to respond to peoples comments more directly, instead of making it look like you cant backup what your saying.
Your response to BBB by just copy pasting your previous and un responsive comment doesn’t really fill the bill.
BBB: I do have to agree with your comments and also Pants on this one ( even though the breakfast post stills makes me cringe when I see that plate of,,, um food )
pmmp: I know you like good traffic so maybe post Pants comment on its own entry and see how many comments is gets…might be really up there.
By the way if BBk,BBB, and pants ever get together at the Mango I will by the first round
Cheers
View all comments by AnotherBarBoss
Girls Girls……….What bitching!!
Gulivers? Best cottage Pie in the World :+), great place for an Evening drink and the big Boys don’t scare me.
Less squabling please its bloody boring….Shh!
Uncle Dave.x
View all comments by Uncle Dave
I have criticised BBK’s style & repetition in the past so will leave it at that except to say I was happy there was no reference to poker.
When in Bangkok I stay at the Bel Aire on soi 5. I do not drink at any of the bars near there & avoid the Africans whenever possible. To me they just spell trouble.
The question does need to be asked though. BBK with all your supposed inside knowledge it appears you don’t know where the girls have gone. Why is that?
View all comments by Wombat
From a blog’s customer point of view:
I come here for two things, either get information, or entertainment.
Basic, uh?
So, well, simply put, i like to see new posts. Still basic ^^’
Gives me something to read at work, a healthy change from the economist (even if, with some of ssB posts… but i digress :p)
BBK has taken over the blog… what a load of crap ^^’
He’s just posting. If you think that information isn’t accurate, just write your own piece about it, i’m sure the owners will post it happily, as long as it’s not full of personal attacks… You can even just add a complement of info in the comments.
And i will be very happy to read it
This is a blog, you now, for fun… nothing really serious, nothing to get heated about… Nothing should get you heated on internet(apart from this very informative site about ponies and monkeys but it’s another story…), so why waste your time fighting alone in the wind?
If you’re in thailand, you have muuuch better to do with your time, and well, i thinks it’s even the case in kansas, but i’m not so sure about that…
“Pisser dans un violon” c’est joli comme expression non?
For exemple, i really, deeply, hate something. I know there are websites of this “something”’s lover. Why the hell should i waste my time and relative mental sanity posting message on their forums?
Ok, it’s different, here it’s on the same place, but you know, we can share space… And anyway it will never be BBK’s space, or yours for that matter, but it’s a free place to talk about anything related to thailand for everyone. Just be good boys and stop throwing shit at each others. Thanks.
And honestly, BBK, you shouldn’t answer the flame post… There’s an old rule on internet, it says “Don’t feed the troll”. Common sense…
PS: ssB, just joking, i really like your politics threads
View all comments by Louk
BBK: We agree that Gulliver’s Sux
Tried three of the last five times over 2008, some solo and some “carting” girls . No service, staff can’t give a damn, …
Conclusions: Won’t go back ever !! Ever!! Too many better places to visit.
Nothing to do with Africans BTW. Not that there is anything wrong with that!
View all comments by 3amigos
I came here via a pattaya secrets link and i must say i liked the gullivers story.I first came to bangkok thirty years ago and married a grace hotel coffee shop girl,some opiniated people here are just johnny come latelys with over inflated egos(only my opinion)
If you dont like someones stuff,dont read it-simple.
As for the spear chuckers and sooties,they are banned from most bars in phnom penh for good reason.Many of them are criminals,dont spend any money and certainly in cambodia are guilty of gang raping women.
I was walking in soi 4 last week and a liberian struck up a conversation and then asked for my phone number-dickhead.
If anyone wants a few good nigerian scam stories from cambodia I have them-oh hang on,I am probably considered just another wanker,forget it.
Its shame that internet produces so much polarisation isnt it?
View all comments by cambtek
BBB (British Bully Boy)
If you don’t like BBK posts don’t read them If you can’t add something to the post or comment specifically about an error he has made, don’t comment. I don’t see BBK hanging s**t on your posts.
Louk agree with you 100%. This site provides help to many who want to get info for their next trip to the “reservation” BKK’s contributions can be long winded but they usually provide something to try on the next BKK trip for many. That’s the fun of it. Learning from your mistakes, makes for interestings stories for your mates at home. The “veterans” don’t seem to want others to have that fun. They seem to think this blog should be written for their benefit alone.
BKK keep writing, though the Ghost has a point about you taking to long to get to the point, that’s you writing style and when I read one of your contributions, I know it’s going to take a while for you to get there but that’s my time wasted, not the veterans.
“Veterans” Vindictive Egotistical Turds Enthusiastically Ranting About Nothing
View all comments by docsmith
@ BBK - some of us are just desperate for you to reform your ways so that we CAN enjoy reading your posts - here’s an example of how frustrating it can be - here you have said the same thing 8 times.. or more if I’ve missed a few..
“I ended up adopted by some of the long time successful Gulliver’s longballers”
“Being friends with these longballers is where I got my first glimpse behind the curtain”
“hang with my longballing friends for a couple of hours”
“Being friends I was in the inner circle and got the latest gossip”
“Of course, I messed around with many of these long ballers”
“Being in the inner circle, I was privy to all sorts of inside information”
“My longballing TG friends”
“Hanging with a band of TG’s”
sigh
View all comments by doctorbond
I used to like Gulliver’s but now I have my reservations about going there if it’s full of those Nigerian prince e-mail scammers.
View all comments by kwai mai sabai
I’ve got a soft spot for G’s and here is why. I went to Gulliver’s for the first time in July, and chatted up one of the super hot regulars at the pool tables. We dated with no sex but lots of fun for about two months, and now enjoy great no-strings, free and totally wild sex as often as we can meet. We go out, I pay for dinners and drinks–though sometimes she does too–and bestow the occasional tasteful gift. True, she has some nominal boyfriend somewhere who supports her, but she is just his trophy. She longballs him, and I ball her. I have to admit I never paid much attention to Nigerians, bad writers, or grumpy expats. Advice: Learn to speak proper Thai fluently and you can write your own ticket, pretty much anywhere. Treat a woman like a hooker and she will treat you like a john; treat her like a lady and she will treat you like a man.
View all comments by 2muchfun
What is this crap all about, Gulliver’s is just another bar with a few TGs, like every other bar in this city and most of the country. You don’t like blacks, then don’t go there, you don’t like grossly over weight Thai women, then don’t go there, but if that is your thing, then by all means go for it. What is this shit that you go to a bar because they have great A/C, give me a break if that is your reason, your in need of a long session on some psycho’s couch. What drivel!!! What the hell are you, men or pussys? Most of you have too much time on your hands. When you go to a bar that you like say so, you sound like a bunch of watanabe polatitions
View all comments by The Man
Gullivers is a place to watch live footie with a genuine football atmosphere (without the violence). It’s never been much of a place to pick up girls. The farang food is good; the Thai food isn’t. End of story. Who cares whether “Africans” visit. Bordering on racism, IMHO.
View all comments by Brewsterbudgen
“psycho’s couch”!!!
Did someone ring my bell???
I’m here and ready to help everyone in needs.
Where have the freelancers been? Like the punters, everywhere else!!! Try Hillary bar2 on soi 4, for instance.
View all comments by SukPsycho
BBB, Brewsterbudgen, The Man and everyone else who spoke up for common sense and fairness on this thread gets a virtual pint from me.
BBK the notion of sophisticated profiling in Thailand is non-existent. I’m sure dreadlocked SSBob can testify to this, I certainly can, and I’m pretty surprised you can’t because you’re Asian yourself and have been a sharp end of it from working girls!
A ban on the ’scamming Africans’ you refer to would only result on a ban in black guys in general, which just wouldn’t be fair. Surely it would would be if the management did what decent pub management should be doing, ie barring individual troublemakers.
To take this case to an extreme, should white guys be banned from from Thailand because a dodgy minority are kiddyfiddlers? Should Arabs be banned from flights to Bangkok because some of them are obese and put an extra drain on planes’ fuel supplies? Should you be banned from all libraries
I can see what you were trying to do with your post BBK, presumably a kind of repeat of your post on how eastern european whores had scared away TGs in another bar a while ago. But you took too long to get to the point in doing so, and when you did it only appealed to the likes of Cambtrek.
View all comments by milo
Well said Milo. I live in Africa. I’ve been working with Africans for 10 years without any hint of problems.
Apart from those Nigerian fuckers who killed my mate (bullet in the bonce) and try and cut heads off with a pen-knife. Other than that, pretty sound bunch.
- You can’t generalise all the ‘Africans’ like this.
View all comments by Daywalker
Immigration is a world wide problem… here in the UK the Poles are all going back to Poland….
How dare they go back there and abandon all our jobs?
View all comments by doctorbond
BBK -Thanks for the post, unlike others who read your posts, I take what I want, and forget the rest. Its called selective filtering, and people should learn it. But what I would like is a little more info relevant to the Long Ballers’ new hangouts are, and maybe some examples of some scams you have heard or seen. Now that would really be helpful to your readers.
BBB- In the title of the article it says who wrote the articles.. in big letters. If your are so adverse to these BBK writings why do you continue to read and comment on them. You do realize that the more comments, the higher the posts will be rated, right? My personal feeling is that while you may not find his posts informative, you do find them amusing, which is why he will continue to write them,and you will continue to read and comment on them.
Lets stick to the reason why were are all reading these posts and the comments and that’s for the insiders information on Bangkok and Thailand.
View all comments by I Phukit
Another Bar Boss,
I believe in free market capitalism.
If somebody uses his own money to open a business then he should be free to run his business however he pleases.
And the government should get out of his way, let him do it, and let him keep and spend any and all profit he generates.
If people don’t like the product or don’t like the price, they are free not to patronize the place.
A good example is CM2.
I used to love this place and go there all the time but they allowed a large band of Russian prostitutes and their attached organized crime handlers to set up shop inside the place. Later they let them move out of the back corner and spread all over the bar.
I assume that CM2 management/owners figure they make more money allowing the Russians to have to the run of the place than they would if they got rid of them or re-confined them to the back bar.
Their bar, their decision, they live with or enjoy the consequences.
In the case of CM2, I can sense the underlying cost/benefit calculus. Someone at CM2 is getting a kickback from the girl’s handlers, and the guys who use the Russians spend money in the place. That money must be greater than the lost money from guys like me who used to go to the place because of the music, atmosphere, and the Thai freelancers.
In the case of Gulliver’s I can’t see the upside. The African scammers don’t buy much and they drive away customers and the girls who attract the customers. It doesn’t seem to make sense—all cost and no benefit.
In both cases, both CM2 and Gulliver’s were places I enjoyed and loved patronizing.
In both cases, I just do it a lot less or not at all.
In both cases, I am sad that a place I enjoyed a lot, produced a lot of good memories, where I met a lot of nice, fun, interesting people is no more.
Ca la vie.
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
“In the case of Gulliver’s I can’t see the upside. The African scammers don’t buy much and they drive away customers and the girls who attract the customers. It doesn’t seem to make sense—all cost and no benefit.”
- Has it occurred to you that there maybe things operating at a higher level that you, the tourist can’t see.
Maybe, just maybe, the Nigerians are paying someone to do business there. Maybe there is money changing hands way up the ladder?
I know a bar (although not in Bangers) that was taken over by the local hoodlums. Customers abandoned the place but the management were paid by the baddies… There are things going on all over that you/we don’t know about.
What I am amazed at, is that no one here has mentioned the main money earner for this crowd. BBK… being in the ‘inner-circle’, you must know what this is. I certainly do.
View all comments by Daywalker
BBK… IMHO DocB stated the same frustrations i have when i read your blog posts. There is information there but the way that it repeats over and over again is like a leaky faucet…
I dont like the bashing posts either, just not my style. Banter is cool but bashing someone is not. BBK does has some info its just a matter of getting though the rest to get the point.
As far as Gullivers’s, I never liked the place so i have not comment on the downfall.
I do have one question for BBK…
So Where are your friends (longballers) now? You seem to know them all well they were your “Inner Circle” but you do not state where the groups have gone… i would like to know. That would make a good story.
GL
View all comments by GoodLife
“The African scammers don’t buy much and they drive away customers”
What, the customers that don’t like black guys? Pretty sure I go to Gullivers more than most posting here and have no problem with them. Still waiting for some true stories about these nasty African scammers and why exactly they drive away customers.
View all comments by jim
Quick roundup before bed:
@ABB: Spot on.
@cambtek: “Johnny come lately”? Nice. Check the post counts.
@docsmith: BBK doesn’t “hang shit” on my posts because I tell the truth and try not to irritate. He wouldn’t have a leg to stand on.
@milo: And a virtual pint for you in return. Glad to see there are still some posters with brains left out there. Please do let me know when you’re next in town.
@IP: Because they reflect the character of the site. We lost our funniest commenter today. I’m thoroughly gutted. I used to find BBK’s posts amusing, although not in a way he would appreciate. Now they just depress me. He’s brought the site down to his level. Sad.
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
Goodlife and Others,
Sorry for the delay in responding.
I am trying to respond to every legitimate comment. It just takes some time.
As far as the Big Question of where all the cool Gulliver’s Longballers have gone, the answer is they have scattered and there is not one place they all moved to.
Gulliver’s ceded it’s place as the premier venue for these girls, no other place has stepped into the breach, and no bar has figured out how to snatch the concomitant trade.
When the Mango moved they tried to bring in the freelancers but
have had mixed success.
My guess is that they are all hanging out at inferior venues, meeting fewer guys, having a harder life, and making less money.
The cream are probably making the normal rounds—Conrad, Spasso, Q-bar, The Bed, etc. but the overhead at these places makes making good regular money tough going.
The marginal ones who lacked the personality, physical appearance, or confidence to compete successfully for the small pool of eligible farang have probably ground themselves into physical and financial oblivion and disappeared from The Reservation.
With a Gulliver’s to help them cheaply and efficiently match up with farang they might have been able to survive and eventually improved their English, social skills, dress, etc. and succeeded but with Gulliver’s gone…. Game over.
There are other venues such as Mojos or The Office that have the space, physical layout, and ambiance to replace a Gulliver’s but they are either making more money with their current business model where they have girls under employment or they haven’t been able to crack the chicken and egg problem—-the girls won’t come without the farang and the farang won’t come without the girls.
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
Daywalker,
See the response to AnotherBarBoss.
You don’t have to beat around the bush.
I personally never saw any evidence that the Nigerians were dealing drugs in Gulliver’s or that the staff was making money off of dealing drugs.
There are no mafia run prostitution rings being run out of Gulliver’s so you can toss that explanation onto the ash heap of history too.
The staff including the assistant managers I had contact with were all nice honest hard working people and the place was and still is the most scam free and honest bar in Bangkok.
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
BBK; If you want to speak like a Frog, it’s pronounced “c’est la vie”.
View all comments by hanuman
Well now BBK.. at the risk of getting this bit deleted, I can honestly say that your previous comment of being in the inner circle was complete and utter horse shit.
It is quite evident that you have not got a clue of whats going on.
I understand though, as you only see what people want you to see.
I’m not saying anyone of the Gullivers team is doing anything dodgy. Far from it. I sympathise with their predicament What I’m saying is that the Nigerians are. And they will do what it takes to conduct their business.
When you are Big Grown-Up Kenny, feel free to ask me about the dark-side. You’ll learn a thing or two.
View all comments by Daywalker