(This is loosely related to In Defense of Thai Women Part 1 and In Defense of Thai Women Part 2 and is on the same general subject of hanging out with normal Thai girls discussed in Fresh Produce Shopping Part 2A-Going to the Library to Check Out Some Books and Fresh Produce Shopping Part 2B-The World’s Greatest Starbucks and Some Advice About How to Bang Normal Thai Girls and banging G-Girls discussed in The Dummies Guide to Banging G-Club Girls Part 1 and The Dummies Guide to Banging G-Club Girls Part 2)
The internet and bars are full of earnest well meaning expats pouncing on newbies and subjecting them to their sad sack stories of woe about the pitfalls of giving Thai girls money.
The patronizing look expats shoot you when you admit to giving Thai girls money is the same look your mom gave you in high school when you drove your first motorcycle into the driveway and the mini skirted hot sexy slutty girl perched on the back was introduced as your new girlfriend.
Mention that you actually enjoy giving Thai girls money and they will commit you to the looney bin or send you to mandatory court ordered counseling—–if they could and such things existed in Thailand.
Just because they were naïve and stupid enough to get suckered and duped by a professional scam artist who happened to be a Thai girl, nothing is going to convince these know-it-all self proclaimed Masters of the Universe expats that all Thai girls are not grifters or that giving Thai girls money is acceptable, normal, admirable, and can be a boatload of fun.
I suppose their advice is valid if you only hang with scamming gogo girls who make a living multi-timing Hometown Heroes or only hook with the professional scam artists whose husbands/boyfriends pimp out their wives/girlfriends trying to fish Thailand newbies but most guys who hang out in Thailand for any period of time eventually move off The Reservation and inevitably meet cool fun sexy normal Thai girls who have jai dee (good heart) and aren’t in it only for the money or begin to hang with part time quasi- freelancers who inhabit the gray zone between pure P4P and normality.
When you move off The Reservation or at least move near the border their advice is clearly wrong.
I disagree with most internet commentators and the whining horde of burned in the past, advice dispensing, well meaning expats.
I believe there is nothing wrong with giving Thai girls money and, in fact, if you are a normal guy with the normal empathy for those you care about it is normal, human, admirable, and, yes, even fun and entertaining to give Thai girls money—if it is done correctly, not taken too seriously, and kept within a financially harmless envelope.
Participating in The Thailand Girl Scene burns money albeit small money compared to costs in The World—plane tickets, hotel bills, bar bills, bar fines, G-Club memberships, Mac Daddying (subject of a future post) etc. all add up in the end. Everything, including girls, going out, and socializing, is cheap in Thailand but it is still not free and in the end you can end up blowing a substantial chunk of change.
It is inane to draw an artificial distinction between money spent buying girl drinks, paying barfines, buying G-gifts for G-girls, forking over short and long time fees, and just giving a girl money because you feel like it while simultaneously spending money to participate in The Thailand Girl Scene. Money that ends up in a girls pocket is money in a girls pocket no matter what circuitous route it takes getting there.
In fact, money given directly cuts out the middleman. Instead of buying a ladydrink where the girl ends up with 50% or less, paying a barfine and ST/LT fee where the bar keeps the barfine, or buying bottles at a G-Club where only a small portion of the price goes to pay the girl’s salary, when you just give a Thai girl money, 100% of it ends up in her purse to do with as she pleases—which is the point of giving her money in the first place. Putting the money directly into the hands of your favorite Thai girl gives your generosity the biggest bang for the buck.
When it comes to giving Thai girls money, Farangs in Thailand can be divided into two groups.
First, are the guys with something wrong in their head, filled with hate toward women and the world, working off some sort of actual or perceived wrong on the poor Thai girls that happen into their clutches. These guys don’t give Thai girls money because they don’t think of them as people. Referring to Thai girls as “cunts, whores, and prostitutes” on the internet chat rooms and forums clues you into the presence of one of these sickies and when you inevitably encounter one of this breed it is hard not going home feeling slimed and a little down on the human race.
Second, are the normal guys banging Thai girls who think and treat Thai girls as people just like them but who had the misfortune of being born in a third world country. My experience is that the majority of farang and the majority of regular posters fall into this category and generally speaking they are an interesting intelligent group of guys who are always fun to hang out with and experience the world with.
There is also an intermediate group who bangs Thai girls but look down on them as an inferior sub-species of the human race. These are the self-proclaimed “Master’s of the Universe” alluded to in The World’s Greatest Starbucks and Some Advice About How to Bang Normal Thai Girls. Personally, these self proclaimed “Master’s of the Universe” quickly wear me out with their assumed airs and endless pontificating.
Normal newbie guys read the internet horror stories posted by sad sack expats and become gun shy about giving Thai girls money. Relying solely on the internet for information misleads newbies and they end up with a slanted false world view. The internet provides an overly negative view because only the guys who got burned are the ones who post.
Most of these posters are Hometown Heroes. These are farangs who back in The World have had little experience, little exposure, and have never been the target of really good looking, sexy knowledgeable women who know how to use and wield their Girl Power. In The World, they just weren’t worth the time and effort and never received much attention from these women and when they get to Thailand and unknowingly moved up on the local desirability index they find themselves overmatched, overwhelmed, and in over their heads.
When Hometown Heroes get to Thailand one of two thing commonly happen. Either they are successfully targeted and bilked by professional scam artists or they get involved with Thai girls fully aware of and skillful in wielding their substantial Girl Power, negotiate poorly, and end up getting out bargained, pussy whipped, and financially cornered. Either way they end up bitter or with egg on their face after being cheated out of their money or getting into a relationship under unfavorable terms and with little recourse, turn to the internet looking for sympathy or validation—and frequently find it from other Hometown Heroes doing the same.
If your only data on the question of giving Thai girls money was the internet leavings of Hometown Heroes you could only conclude that all Thai girls are professional scam artists and only an idiot would give them money.
What is missing from the internet are the majority of guys who get involved with Thai women, give them money on their terms, don’t get bilked, don’t get out negotiated, enjoy it, benefit from it, and at the end of the story, when the costs and benefits are tabulated are perfectly happy with the experience and would do it again.
(See Celebration or Condemnation, In Defense of Thai Women Part 1 and Part 2 if you are interested
in the lexicography of the Hometown Hero term.)
Which brings us to the subject of this essay—If you are going to give Thai girls money how do you do it?
The central principle of giving Thai girls money which most farangs forget or ignore at their peril is:
YOU HAVE THE MONEY! YOU HAVE THE POWER! YOU ARE THE FARANG!
Relationships between farang and Thai girls are inherently asymmetrical. The farang always has more money, more options, and more power than the Thai girl(s) he is involved with. What amazes me when listening to farang financially and/or emotionally involved with Thai girls is how little recognized, how little utilized this power is in the real world, and what a profound effect this power can have in the right knowledgeable hands. What really really amazes me is how much fun these guys could have giving the same money if they only knew they had the power, got some guidance about how to use it, grew some balls and actually wielded that power effectively.
Thailand is a mirror image of The World. In The World, any guy with real money considering getting married has the system stacked against them—alimony laws, child support laws, customs, and social morays all place the man in a disadvantageous position in a traditional un-pre nupped western marriage. In The World, once you are married, your wife has your balls in a vice, most of them know it, and most of them are ruthless in exploiting their advantage– especially if the relationship sours and breaks up.
Thailand is the opposite—economics, laws, religion, customs, and behavioral norms all favor men but unlike women in The World, the power men in Thailand hold is rarely recognized, rarely utilized, rarely exploited, and more importantly, rarely enjoyed by the farang involved with Thai women. Nothing is more pitiful than seeing or being friends with farang who are giving Thai women money but are still kept on a leash and kept locked down and terrorized by their Thai girlfriend/mistress.
In the poker world, there are two applicable terms, Chip Ho and BBD.
A Chip Ho is a good looking girl who likes to gamble but is not skillful enough to be a long term winner—the poker world’s version of a gold digger. The Chip Ho stays in action by hooking up with successful or recently flush players who stake them in return for sexual favors and a GFE. Sometimes they hook with successful gamblers but mostly they hook onto guys who lucked into a big score, e.g. wannabes who got lucky by winning a big tournament like the ones you see on TV.
When a Chip Ho’s current runs low on money or she finds an amenable guy with even more money she moves on or moves up—that is what distinguishes her from a normal girlfriend or wife. In the poker world, the players say BBD—Bigger Better Deal.
The vast majority of the time, The Deal you offer a normal Thai girl is not only Bigger and Better than any other available deal, most of the time it is the ONLY deal on the table. Your deal, no matter how modest the terms, dominates the alternative—which is typically no deal at all.
Sure a Thai girl would like an exclusive committed relationship where you only bang her and ignore the plethora of hungry Thai girls looking to scoop their own BBD.
Sure a Thai girl would like to move out of her small shared un-air conditioned apartment with squat toilet that requires a 2 hour commute to work on un air-conditioned buses and move into an air conditioned apartment in a luxury high rise replete with the latest modern appliances and entertainment devices, walking distance to work, in the heart of Bangkok, rent free.
Sure a Thai girl would like to quit her dead end job where she slaves 6 days a week 10 hours a day doing repetitive moronic tasks under the close supervision of a male Thai slave driver boss and instead spends her days sleeping, watching Thai soap operas, shopping with your dime, and getting massaged, facialed, and manicured—where her only daily responsibility is smiling, looking pretty and occasionally putting out.
Sure a Thai girl would like to receive a monthly allowance greater than her current salary with no attached responsibilities except entertaining and banging a guy who she likes anyway and would entertain and probably bang for shits and giggles even if no money were available or offered.
Sure a Thai girl would like you to take over complete financial responsibility for her immediate and extended family boosting her face and standing among her peers with little cost to herself.
But if that is not the deal that is offered and that is not a deal she can negotiate, the deal you offer is still way better than the alternative and, more importantly, if you don’t give in fully to every demand and request there is little danger your Thai girl will move on because normally there is nothing decent to move on to.
This is so important I will say it again.
IN THAILAND THERE IS NO DANGER OF YOUR THAI GIRL MOVING ON BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING DECENT TO MOVE ONTO!!!
IN THAILAND, THERE IS NO BBD !!!
When it comes to money your Thai girl(s) might beg, wheedle, pout, yell, scream, throw a tantrum, and even try withholding sex but in the end she has no choice but to come back to papa and accept your terms.
Wrapping your head around this idea is strangely liberating and acting on this idea can be fun and hugely entertaining.
There are many regimes under which you can give Thai girls money and this essay is too short to discuss them all but I will discuss two to get you started.
A common mistake farang newbies frequently make is to start off a Thai girl on the LUXURY VACATION PACKAGE. This is where the farang gives the girl enough money to have a nice apartment or moves into the farangs apartment, she doesn’t have to work for a living, and lives a comfortable middle class (which for Thailand is high class) lifestyle—just like she was on a nice luxury vacation she won in a raffle.
Starting a girl on the LUXURY VACATION PACKAGE is the biggest mistake newbie farangs make.
Frequently, the Thai girl presents this as the only alternative, the inexperienced farang is stupid enough to agree to it, and the farang ends up bitter, unhappy, and with the Thai girl on top calling the shots—-not exactly the way the game plan was supposed to enfold.
The LUXURY VACATION PACKAGE has several problems that should be avoided no matter what regime you decide to use when giving Thai girls money.
The first is that for farangs of modest financial means it involves real financial sacrifice.
The whole point of coming to or living in Thailand is more cheaper fun but what is fun or cheap about taking on a financial burden that causes real sacrifice in exchange for dubious or at least easy to find and cheap to replace benefits?
The second is the incentive structure stinks. The Thai girl gets upfront everything she wants and sometimes everything there is to get if the farang is of modest financial means without having to do anything.
Once the cruise ship has left the dock and the Thai girl is safely ensconced in the upper deck ocean view cabin she has nothing to work for because she is already getting everything there is. Why should the Thai girl work to please the farang or obey orders when doing so doesn’t provide any additional benefits and poses little danger of losing the benefits she already has?
Would you pay a contractor 100% of his fee plus 100% of the cost of labor and materials before construction begins—leaving yourself with no recourse if he fails to complete the work to code and on time or if he utilizes sub-standard materials? Only an idiot would do this but this exactly what many farang newbies agree to.
The third is scalability. If the girl doesn’t do what you want, the LUXURY VACATION PACKAGE is an all or nothing deal.
This is the same problem a country has when it relies solely on nuclear bombs for defense. Sure no one is going to invade a country if the result is getting nuked but if nuking someone is the only deterrent other countries can do a lot of small things to hurt you and you have no recourse. Communist China might rail on and on about Taiwan but with only nuclear weapons and no Navy or amphibious capability they exercise zero control or influence over Taiwan’s day to day behavior. Nuking Taiwan when the Taiwanese president gives a speech threatening declaring independence is not a credible threat.
You can’t kick your Thai girl out of your apartment on Mondays and Wednesdays when she misbehaves, add on Thursday when she ignores your polite request to rectify the situation, and threaten Friday on the streets if you don’t get immediate satisfaction. Such a threat is not credible but it is the only threat available after a newbie gets suckered into the LUXURY VACATION PACKAGE.
If you decide to give a Thai girl money, The PERFORMANCE PACKAGE is what I recommend. It avoids all the pitfalls of the LUXURY VACATION PACKAGE, stays within a comfortable financial envelope, produces a better product, provides a lot of benefits to you, and is entertaining and a hell of a lot of fun when done right.
And there is no reason not to do it right after reading this essay!
The PERFORMANCE PACKAGE requires adhering to two principles.
First, agree to no long term recurring commitments such as being responsible for a girl’s monthly rent. If she asks for help with her rent and you decide to give her some money, agree to help her this month but make it clear that there is no agreement about future rent payments. You might help her out with future monthly payments but that is dependent on future performance.
Second, don’t give any money without making the girl do something substantial in exchange and when you are bargaining remember you are in Thailand, there is no BBD available, and when it come to asking for something in exchange you can be creative, think outside the box, expand the envelope, and ask for things that in The World would make you a secret hero of your male buddies but a social pariah if the chorus of overweight, politically correct, ball crushing, hairy arm pitted housewives of your work friends in The World got wind of it.
What can you ask for in exchange for giving money to your Thai girls?
The only limits are your personal interests and the bounds of your creativity and imagination but here are some suggestions to spark your creative juices.
When your Thai girl asks for money how about:
- Making your Thai girl agree that for the next month whenever you are out together in public, you can make her go into the nearest restroom, remove her bra and/or panties, surrender them to you, and she spends the rest of the outing/evening secretly buck naked under her dress/skirt—-sort of like your own personal Baccara upstairs girl.
- Having your Thai girl spend/invest her own money getting out service from your favorite Orchid Massage Girl. Where the Orchid Massage Girl trains up your Thai girl with you as the instructional dummy so she can administer an expert Ball Massage. Where you give your Thai girl a final exam where she has to satisfactorily tune up and flush your system everyday for a week, you grade her performance on a 10 point scale, and give her the rent supplement for that month only if she achieves an overall score of 8.5. (see the The Dummies Guide to the Ball/Testicle Massage)
- Telling your Thai girl that everyday for a week after work/school or whenever and wherever you SMS her the pre-selected codeword, she will immediately go home, take a shower, get naked, handcuff herself to the bed (don’t give her the handcuff keys but be merciful and let her have the remote to the Nintendo Wii), wait for you for a couple of hours naked and cuffed to the bed to come home and she only gets uncuffed and dressed after you are sexually satisfied.
- <Insert your own sick twisted fantasy here or see Fresh Ideas About How to Really Really Really Have Fun in Thailand .>
Of course, you can ask for the less fun and more mundane things like.
- Keeping your apartment especially the kitchen and bathroom spic and span and only paying after she passes 2 weeks of daily inspections.
- Going shopping everyday with her own money, buying fresh ingredients, and cooking a nice tasty dinner every night for the next three weeks.
- Going to school to improve her English and only paying if she passes a daily quiz for two weeks.
But what fun is asking and getting the less fun and mundane things? The less fun and mundane is not what Thailand exists for. When you use the PERFORMANCE PACKAGE go for the gold, accept no compromises, and, remember, you are in Amazing Thailand not The World.
Newbies are usually skeptical when told they can put their Thai girls on the PERFORMANCE PACKAGE but when you actually offer the PERFORMANCE PACKAGE what is surprising is that Thai girls almost uniformly and enthusiastically get with the program.
Maybe it is because Thai culture and religion train Thai girls to value being suphaap and nareek (see Fresh Produce Shopping Part 2B-The World’s Greatest Starbucks and Some Advice About How to Bang Normal Thai Girls for an explanation of suphaap and nareek).
Maybe it is because Thai women really want to make their men happy and please them but because of the cultural and language divide they are in the dark and clueless about what would actually please their farang most of the time. They welcome concrete suggestions about what their farang wants.
Maybe it is because the average normal Thai girl is curious about and wants to explore sexually but are too shy or too uniformed to bring up the subject and actually get down and dirty. They are begging for any flimsy excuse to drop the shy virgin masquerade.
Maybe it is because there is no BBD so Thai girls are super motivated to close the deal on the only deal in town no matter how weird and offbeat the conditions are.
What is certain is that there is right and wrong way to give Thai girls money.
Do it the right way and it is fun, entertaining, financially harmless, and hugely enjoyable.
Do it the wrong way and you will end up same same as the horde of bitter expats infesting the bars waiting to inflict their sad sack stories of woe on unsuspecting newbies.
Anyway, I hope this essay guides you onto your own personal path to potentially hugely enjoyable, intellectually engaging, immensely fun, and only available in Thailand hobby of giving Thai girls money.
In Part 2 of The Dummies Guide to Giving Thai Girls Money—The Art of Saying No and How to Protect Yourself from The Greedy Relatives—The Thai/Asian Way.
Dude, your a friggin Genious!!!!!
View all comments by Radicalron
what comes around, goes around…
View all comments by xxxx
i was thrilled to read this post as i was feeling confident that the mandatory poker reference would not plague another of BBK’s musings. that is until i kept reading.
anyone going to the BEHEMOTH or HAUNTED concerts in bangkok? what better place to meet a girl that will love to get it on to the luscious grooves and blast beats of black metal.
View all comments by UnCochinoWetback
@ Imbringsexywetback - Good call. Ive always wanted to tap into the goth market. I can just picture myself hanging out the back of a headbanging grunge-babe. Wanna get myself some EMO self-harming action too. I hear theres a small scene up Khaosan road that needs to be investigated
Likewise Im gonna head to the MBK tattoo show at MBK next time it rolls around to try and score some inked up ass. If you dont have tattoos of your own, never fear, take a cue from BBKs guide to trolling round libraries where you have no business being there…..
Simply stock up on those press-on tattoos you get from cereal packages and go nuts! These tattoo babes like the grungier look, so you can leave your shirts made of QUALITY FABRICS and DRESS SHOES back at your HIGH RISE CONDO.
View all comments by Young Penfold
BBK, I should tell you the Point Police were by asking for you, and I told them that as far as I knew you didn’t have one. But they have been known to casually drop one on the floor during a “routine search”, so be careful who you open the door to.
View all comments by Pants Elk
Interesting post, but I think it’s simpler than that. There are roughly four types of foreigners here: Expats who work for foreign companies, tourists who come here for fun (unless they were stupid enough to bring their wives/families), guys who’ve retired here (50+), and then the guys who are here semi-permanently - that is they have to leave the country every ninety days and they don’t have a work permit. Expats often work here and bring their families, so they don’t spend much time in bars.
I think it’s the group of guys who are here semi-permanently that have the most problem with having to justify why they give their girlfriends money on a regular basis. Leaving aside the S/T experience (P4P) in which Thailand excels, if your girlfriend came from a bar (or something similar in which she went with customers for money) she’s a whore. If you take her out of the bar and she lives with you and you pay her money - she’s still a whore! It’s not complicated. The litmus test is if you stop giving her money would she leave you?
Thailand is full of bright, beautiful University educated girls who work for a living, don’t have tattoos over their ass, don’t have stretch marks from having kids at 16 - and don’t work in a bar. They would be quite happy to go out with a foreigner, but most of the foreigners they know of (other than expats if they work in a large company) live in areas like Sukhumvit Soi 4 and prefer to give their money away. It’s easy to go out with these girls - but you have to be working in a serious job, be legit (not leaving all the time to do visa runs) and be in the right environment. Decent girls won’t go out with a foreigner if he spend his time whoring, nor would any woman for that matter. It also helps to be respectful of Thai customs.
Another test is if you go out with a girl - maybe she’s not a bar girl - and she’s always asking for money, or her family asks for money. In my book this also counts as a (borderline) whore.
I don’t see the point in having a gf you give money to when you could spend the same amount and have complete freedom and multiple partners, AKA bar girls.
View all comments by Mark Lamerton
A lot of work went into that awesome post
Thanks for the great read BBK!
View all comments by JustinCider
It’s easier just to read Mark Lamerton’s comment, which condenses BBK’s biblical scroll (and indeeed his whole tiresome oeuvre) into something that makes a simple point clearly and then goes away. Bravo, Mark.
View all comments by Pants Elk
Another sermon from the mount. I couldn’t get past the 4th hometown hero. The line about assumed airs & endless pontificating got a wry smile though.
View all comments by Wombat
Dunno why, but I always get the feeling that there’s something very Germanic/Teutonic about BBK’s subs. He reads kind of like the Kraftwork of the P4P and mating game:
“She’s a Thai girl and she’s looking good
I’d like to take her home I think that’s understood
Starbucks of the library it is all the same
Not to get your end in would be such a shame”
[synth pulse x4 and fade]
There’s always lot’s of useful information too - just like in a Passat owners manual.
View all comments by fanta
YP- already got the tats and the connections with the local scene. khao san has some pretty nice joints for indie and punk but the black metal scene is actually pretty strong. the opening act for Behemoth is a respected thai black metal band. so i’ll see you at studio 125?
i’ll give a call to some metal chicks and bring them along. remember to wear your finest silk shirt with the top button free showing all your taco meat. a few gold chains and disco pants will complete the ensemble
View all comments by UnCochinoWetback
“In Thailand there is no BBD” How’s that?
What happens when your girl meets the more hansume Pants Elk? Or the more refined YP? Or the all muscular BBB?
View all comments by hanuman
@ wetterthananotterspocket - Disoc pants? No problem - check the avatar. Or did you mean ‘evening slacks?’
Unfortunately, at my tender age, I have no real ‘taco meat’ to speak of. I am however, forever getting stopped in Siam Paragon as im shopping for Balooga and rubbers, by hi-so Thais and celebs quizzing men “where on earth did you get this pastel turquoise shirt and beige chinos from? - the quality of the fabric is second to none - you must be a REAL man-about-town? You fancy a trip to The Peep Inn for some brown love?”
By all means bring the heavy metal babes along, and prepare them for a WILD NIGHT. They’ll be positively foaming at ‘the lips’ at my engrossing poker stories.
How can it go wrong?
View all comments by Young Penfold
I did not read the post but I like to read the comments.
@ Mark L: What type is BBK then?
View all comments by SukPsycho
@ SukPsycho - you didnt miss much
View all comments by Young Penfold
BBK…Dude, you have to include a glossary and an index for these posts.
@Mark..nice summary….thanks.
View all comments by The Asian Badger
Interesting, but how does this apply to a “normal” girl? This seems to apply almost entirely to whores, and yeah, in the whore realm this advice seems to make a great deal of sense.
Ummm, maybe I’m wrong, but you don’t give normal girls money unless you’re married to her and she quits her job? What I really want to know is how to get into these only-in-Thailand relationships where the girl seems to be supporting the guy!:) Seems quite common here, so must be part of the culture!
Secondly, umm, what sort of girl won’t have other options so will have to take anything offered her? Surely not a girl worth having? Surely anyone worth having will indeed not find it too hard to find another “sponser” if you make it too hard for her?
All this talk of incentive structures sounds a bit harsh to apply to a normal relationship where the transaction is conducted in affection, warmth, desirable personal qualities, etc. To whores, yeah, this is GREAT advice! But regular girls?!
I don’t know, BBK, but maybe you’ve allowed your delight with the whore scene and the way it’s packaged to appear innocent blur your perceptions of the regular and whore world? That’s actually quite a common thing in Thailand, where unfamiliarity with the culture leads people to declare that whoring is just a kind of normal relationship, because it’s accepted and seems nicer than back home. But even Thais who might keep mistresses and patronise whores with great generosity draw a clear line between normal and whore.
I agree with the whole “hometown hero” bit and how most internet posts give a completely distorted view of Thailand - I got the most distorted view of Thailand imaginable from the ‘net. The WORST thing a newbie to Thailand can do is read the ‘net about Thailand and actually believe a shred of what he reads without being able to put in context and see where it’s exaggerated, etc, it will poison his mind. That’s spot on.
In fact, that’s a phenomenon that’s being going on since colonial times in Asia, where the older community would “indoctrinate” the younger arrival with a hideously twisted and negative view of the native community and poison his mind with distrust and dislike, ensuring that he would approach the natives with a terrible attitude, which would just perpetuate the cycle. Really tragic, and Orwell, Foster, and others commented on this vicious phenomenon. It’s interesting to see this still alive in Asia.
In a new culture it’s often really hard to navigate your way through the unfamiliar cultural landscape and figure out who to trust and who not, what signs to look for, what language means in certain contexts, etc, so as a simple self defense measure it’s EASIER to just say EVERYONE is dishonest. It isn’t true, but it’s EASY for most people, that’s how I think this whole thing got started.
View all comments by Cromwell Butterfield
That was funny. Hilarious really. I mean, kinda like ‘Quick, slap me on my back real friggin’ hard cause I’m laughing so much I might just fucking DIE!’
As an aside, what about the girls such as the one that approached my friend at a club and queried “Have you been with my friend?” “No.” “Okay, meet me outside in five minutes. I’ll pick you up.” Pulled up in her late model Mercedes and whisked him off to his 7000 baht per month apartment for a solid 12 hour sex-fest. Or the girl that he met at a different venue. The girl that just last week picked him up in said squalid apartment in her brand new BMW, and over dinner at the Face Bar (she paid) presented him with a bottle of cologne she purchased while vacationing in Dubai…then drove him home and fucked him all night long. What kind of tasks do you demand of them when you present them the BBD?
View all comments by The Heckler
I don’t know about all that but boy did a hot (Thai) girl get on the same BTS car as me today at Chtilom.
View all comments by jack dawson
*still laughing — and JD doesn’t help* harharhar
View all comments by The Heckler
Mark Lamerton,
My view is that most of the time, the Thai girl you are with has a lot less money and has a much harsher lifestyle than you. The relationship is asymmetric.
If it is not just a one night stand for money deal and you are human, it is natural to want to give her some money and buy her some nice things.
I also think it is reasonable when she requests your assistance. After all the reason you are with her is that you like her and enjoy her company and it is a pretty cold hearted guy who can spend lots of baht taking her out to nice restaurants, spending money going to the movies together, and going out to night clubs and stand by mute when she is about to get kicked out of her apartment because she can’t pay the rent, her teeth are rotting away because she can’t afford to go to the dentist, or she has a big mole on her face that she can’t afford to get removed.
Your comment:
“Thailand is full of bright, beautiful University educated girls who work for a living, don’t have tattoos over their ass, don’t have stretch marks from having kids at 16 - and don’t work in a bar. They would be quite happy to go out with a foreigner, but most of the foreigners they know of (other than expats if they work in a large company) live in areas like Sukhumvit Soi 4 and prefer to give their money away. It’s easy to go out with these girls - but you have to be working in a serious job, be legit (not leaving all the time to do visa runs) and be in the right environment.”
I agree with you. If you leave The Reservation there is a whole world out there to explore and enjoy.
See the Starbucks and the Ramkahaeng Library post.
———————————————————-
Cromwell Butterfield,
The comments to Mark Lammerton apply to your comment as well.
Even the normal Thai girls with normal jobs are usually going to have a lot less money than you do. If you like them it is natural to want to get them some nice things and help them out once in awhile.
The amount of money involved is usually comparable to what you are spending on The Reservation hanging with girls so it no big deal financially.
There is a whole Asian thing where you help people out and they have an obligation to assist you in the future that come into play here too—-but that is the subject of Part 2.
So given that you are probably going to end up giving the normal Thai girls you have been banging some money, the post is all about discussing the good and bad ways of doing it because, let’s face it, most guys from The World are not that experienced doing it.
Giving girls money is a normal everyday occurrence in Thailand/Asia but it is uncommon and takes place under a completely different dynamic in The World.
The post is not about the P4P girls but the normal girls and the ones who are on the borders of P4P world. I put some of the G-Girls in the this category BTW.
————————————–
The Heckler,
What you want to read is The Dummies to Getting Thai Girls to Give You Money.
Completely different subject.
Maybe he can be asked to be taken on a trip to Hong Kong or Shanghai where in exchange for airfare and hotel he gets to be handcuffed naked to the bed for a couple of hours while his girlfriend is off shopping in Causeway Bay and only gets uncuffed after she returns and he sexually satisfies her.
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
No, wait a minute, I’m being unfair. I think BBK is a truly amazing writer. It takes a unique talent to make living in Bangkok sound as exciting as a rainy bank holiday in Wales with your mother-in-law. And to write for so long and so relentlessly about so little is impressive in itself - his dedication to his thankless task is Sisyphean (possibly mis-spelt classical reference, in the manner of show-off blog commenters everywhere).
The sight of the eager-to-learn sex-tourist unrolling an endless print-out of BKK’s Dummies Guides in the clubs and bars of Bangkok, often using a pocket torch and mouthing the sage advice therein soundlessly before putting it into practice, has become a much-loved BKK institution, along with dreadlocked banana pancake eaters on the Khao San Road. The question “hmmm … what does BBK say about this?” has become part of the process of Banging Thai Girls for everyone. Or not.
Never mind the critics, Kenny! You still have a loyal fan who thinks you a genius, and the fact that he can’t spell the word should not be a concern to you. This is your demographic.
View all comments by Pants Elk
I’ve always wondered where the metal and rock scene in Bangkok was or if there is one. Are there a lot of clubs/bars that regularly feature metal bands other than Metal Zone (if it’s even still open)?
Great post BBK. “Performance Package.” LOL.
View all comments by cranialgalactic
cranialgalactical- studio 125 has good metal shows once in a while featuring international acts. As I Lay Dying played their longest show in history there. The rock pub has decent shows once in a blue moon but most of the time features that hair metal pre-grunge crap.
if you want to check out more on the metal scene in thailand check out http://www.siammetal.com where they have updates on shows, local bands and venues.
View all comments by UnCochinoWetback
BBK - Well, that seems a bit misleading to me. Of course you should be generous to these poor girls, and help them out in all sorts of ways, but if you’re dealing with a normal girl - not a prostitute - then you really shouldn’t have to worry about being manipulated by her nor should you be expecting anything back except affection and warmth, don’t you think?
Yet it seems to me that most of your post is a very intelligent and well thought out explanation of strategy and tactics to help avoid being exploited by girls and to maximize returns on your money.
Strategy and tactics apply to warfare and business, less so in romance (although a bit there too
) , so I really have a hard time seeing how any of this can apply to normal, regular romance.
It seems to me that most guys have little trouble with money and normal girls, it’s the whores which destroy them - and for the simple and obvious reason that these guys fail to deal with it as a business situation, where your advice is excellent and very much needed, and instead approach it as a lovely little romance.
So yeah, in the end, your post is excellent and much needed advice for guys who deal with whores, but I think the best - and perhaps the only - real piece of advice needed is to not delude yourself and remember you are in a business relationship. The girl will never forget that. Keep that in your mind, and you will automatically switch into business strategy and tactics mode and you won’t act like an idiot. Just because you’re doing business doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be polite, civil, even friendly and affectionate to your whore! Just never forget what it’s all about, at the end of the day. She won’t. And if you do, she’ll eat ya’ alive, like any good business woman worth her salt. And good for her, she should!
View all comments by Cromwell Butterfield
as usual the critics are quick to pull out their knives ,and the replys were most entertaining.thats why i enjoy this site so much.i havnt tried handcuffing my girlfriend to the bed yet and leaving her there for an hour or two,not sure how that would go down.maybe im not kinky enough.i might try the underwear bit though.
bbk i think its time your poker references should be dropped-they might sound good in your head but …keep up the good job anyway,it was different-not sure about appying it to any woman who is not a lowly whore .ive had a girlfriend here for over a year,she never asks for money and she keeps the place spotless without dangeling a carrot in front of her eyes.
any ideas if thailand might devalue the bht?being from oz it cant come quick enough.cheers to all rt.
View all comments by zepplin
zep
personally I don’t think they will move to devalue. I think talking about it is the plan since that in and of itself makes for a weaker baht.
as stated before though the oz money problem is not a baht issue. the oz dollar is just getting creamed against every currency.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
Although this is pretty simple stuff when you think about it, most people don’t think about it. At any rate I hadn’t. A new set of concepts helps you develop new ways of thinking. The poker analogies put the necessary concepts in your head in a way that you’re unlikely to forget; they make you analyse, categorise and plan. So in contrast to zep, I’d say keep them in.
View all comments by john the baptist
I’d like to see other models being used, ones we’re more familiar with. Let’s see Connect Four being used in a metaphorical way to help us off the reservation.
View all comments by Random Gun Nut
BBK, this is fatally flawed. You assert:
“The vast majority of the time, The Deal you offer a normal Thai girl is not only Bigger and Better than any other available deal, most of the time it is the ONLY deal on the table. Your deal, no matter how modest the terms, dominates the alternative—which is typically no deal at all.”
And:
“IN THAILAND THERE IS NO DANGER OF YOUR THAI GIRL MOVING ON BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING DECENT TO MOVE ONTO!!!
IN THAILAND, THERE IS NO BBD !!!”
However, would not this Thai girl be able to find some other Thai or Farang who was simply not such a creepy anus as to demand your 1, 2, 3, or 4 for cash? Isn’t that precisely a BBD? After all, your recommendation just comes down to forcing them to recognize that they are whore’s for your money. Here’s an idea: for the money you give em, perhaps you could ask them to video you jacking off to undergraduates in the university library?
Your ideas on how to “make it fun to give Thai girls money”
is really a degradation of whores, money, sex, libraries and women.
View all comments by fanta
Enjoyed the post. Made sense.
Previously mentioned the Bar Girls Ten Commandments which mistakenly thought we read here.
Some of you will enjoy this:
http://www.stickmanweekly.com/StickMarkII/TheThaiBargirlsTenCommandments2008Update.htm
View all comments by 3amigos
Somebody has “control” issues me thinks…
View all comments by John Brown
BBK - the way you dispense your information and opinions makes YOU sound like one of the “Master’s of the Universe” that you look down upon.
Regarding your post - it seems like a lot of Thai girls with multiple sponsors sending them money every month already have the BBD (bigger better deal) so this point is moot.
I’m not solely referring to gogo chrome pole dancers or BGs, also girls working normal jobs who meet farang (as nurses, flight attendants, dept store clerks, office workers, etc), or the ones touring the Singapore, HK, Sydney whore circuit. These girls aren’t stupid, they know they are hot. They know guys want to f*ck them and are willing to invest time and money to do so. You’re not saving them from some squalid death chamber with no running water or electricity. They are born in Thailand. That is how life is for a lot of Thais.
View all comments by Great Gatsby
I thought that this was another of BBK’s rather too long posts. BUT, I always find something useful and interesting in his posts and in this one I really liked the idea of obtaining crazy sexual favours in return for ones money. I have a girl that I know who is crazy enough to go for these daft things - just the sort that BBK talks about, a girl who is looking for an excuse to stop being “a good girl”. Thanks Kenny, I will give your ideas a try.
View all comments by Nok Opayop
Always interesting to read BBK’s enemies respond. He may be the most reviled blogger here (at least amongst the Bigmangobar sycophants). I wonder however, have you (BBK) actually implemented any of your strategies? Or are you just a theorist?
View all comments by The Middle Stooge
I always picture the guys that respond to BBKs wildy inaccurate tripe with shit like ‘hhhhmmm great post’ and ‘very imformative - Thanks!’……
Most likely guys who wear beige and eat biscuits in meetings. In the 2weeks a year they spend in BKK, they speak pidgeon english to ugly hookers and eat ferang food every day in english pubs. Probably have names like Trevor or Ken. Perhaps a Dennis or 2?
View all comments by Young Penfold
Penfold, Dude, your a friggin Genious!
View all comments by mart
Mart, dude, your a great convenience store! Your my saviour when shopping for my weekly essentials such as condoms, milk, fruit mentos, sanitary towels, DTAC and biros!
If you could stock up on horse tranquilizers and an antacid to stop me vomitting violently like that chick from the excorist, im sure I would enjoy BBKs post ten-fold!
You rule! Thanks! Young Penfold
View all comments by Young Penfold
Doubel dip - I missed Weetabix off the list
View all comments by Young Penfold
So, I only scanned the article and then started reading the replies. I saw this:
IN THAILAND THERE IS NO DANGER OF YOUR THAI GIRL MOVING ON BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING DECENT TO MOVE ONTO!!!
IN THAILAND, THERE IS NO BBD !!!
but I didn’t catch where BBK defined “BBD” earlier in the article. A lot of replies also referred to “BBD”, so I thought this was a generally understood mongering term that I just wasn’t clued into, like p4p or LB or TG or LT/ST or whatever. So, naturally, I went to urbandictionary to find out what it meant, and the first entry was…”big black dick.” So, until I read GG’s post, I spent the last 2 days thinking that the crux of BBK’s article was about how to get the girls to be into me, at least until she latches on to some brotha who can bust her apart…
View all comments by fender
My dear Foldy, shall I stop stocking SPY pink and disposable anal plugs as you didn’t mention them?
View all comments by mart
tms - bbk is for real. The reason he writes about it and the strategies behind the money is cause bbk is not as good as looking as myself, yp or tricycle. So he has to throw the money around but that is the beauty of thailand.
I always like to remind people. Out of bbk’s 31 posts they are usually the most commented posts on the blog and they are consistently in the top 25 most read posts of all time.
love him or hate em - people read it.
fun stuff.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
This article was fucking ponderous, man. Fucking ponderous.
View all comments by Casey Kasem
I have a small dick. Like really small. An acorn with testicles.
View all comments by Mr Right
My penis is so small I need tweezers to take a leak! Let’s meet in a church basement somewhere and hug!
PS What’s a testicle?
View all comments by Pants Elk
PE - it’s a legal document in which one says who’s going to inherit their property after their death.
View all comments by mart
Penfold, the selection of names was on the money. To be honest I think most British farang in Thailand are called Trevor, Ken or Dennis. Or Lee, Gary, Ste, Jason/Jase/Jay. These are the type of men who wear blue tracksuit bottoms come rain or shine and smoke ‘B&H Silver’ right down to the quick.
I’m not going to ‘hate on’ BBK because I like his work. Quite frankly, if i could commit myself to writing as often as he does I would not be sharing my insights on Thai whores with you ‘orrible lot but instead aspiring to the literary endeavour of Proust or Henry James - who, with his ‘ponderously warm manner of saying nothing in infinite sentences’ has more in common with BBK than at first you might think.
But saying that, I’m being unfair. Behind the weight of the first few pars BBK makes a very valid point that isn’t heard enough in the ‘kokosphere’ - that is, if you’re going to give money to women, Thai or otherwise, make damn sure you get what you want in return. We’ve all got mates who are surprised when you tell them you went to an MP and you got a rimjob. And they ask ‘how do you manage that’ - and you can only reply, ‘because I paid and I asked her to.’
View all comments by milo
@ Milo im mildly embarrased as you actually mentioned my name in that little chavvy list you jest reeled off
Ive always wondered what the REAL names behind the posters/avatars actually are. I can confirm BBBs real name sounds like a cheap haulage company, and Pants Elks has the name of a geography teacher with paedophillic (is that even a word) tendencies
Id love to think UncochinioWetback has a cool south american name. Something you’d expect from a brazilian footballer. Kind of a letdown if it would be ‘herb’ or ‘guy’
View all comments by Young Penfold
Fanta,
From what I observe, there aren’t enough Farang to go around so there really is no BBD. Walking around the various venues of Sukhumvit, the foreign businessman and Thai G-Clubs, and the clubs and discos on Rachada, RCA, etc., I don’t see that many decent farang and when I am exposed to normal Thai girls they always react positively to any halfway decent farang.
Also, my experience is that Thai girls pretty adventurous and open minded and open minded sexually—and I am not talking about the just the GoGo and P4P girls. I am talking about the normal Thai girls.
So I don’t agree with your characterization of anything but plain vanilla, missionary position, lights out, banging as “degradation”.
————————————————————————–
Great Gatsby,
The GoGo girls and internet specialists who have multiple sponsors fall into the “multi-timing” scam artists referred to in the post.
They are just professional scam artists working the Hometown Hero circuit so I don’t think anything in the post applies to them.
They are same same as the tuk tuk drivers selling 1000 THB rides from the airport, the taxi drivers hijacking tourists to take them to diamondd merchants etc., and should be treated as such.
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
Young Penfold and Pants Elk,
I think the lyrics from an Elvis Costello Song applies to you two card carrying members of the BigMango Hater’s Clubs.
As I walk through
This wicked world
Searchin for light in the darkness of insanity.
I ask myself
Is all hope lost?
Is there only pain and hatred, and misery?
And each time I feel like this inside,
Theres one thing I wanna know:
Whats so funny bout peace love & understanding? ohhhh
Whats so funny bout peace love & understanding?
And as I walked on
Through troubled times
My spirit gets so downhearted sometimes
So where are the strong
And who are the trusted?
And where is the harmony?
Sweet harmony.
So I ask you two. In your lives:
Is all hope lost?
Is there only pain and hatred and misery?
What’s so funny about peace love and understanding?
Peace Brothers.
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
@Penfold. Soz!
Leafy Hertfordshire chavvy? Surely no
There’s always that risk when you insult names. I once said ‘I hate the name Francis’ to someone who, unknown to me, had the middle name Francis. It could only have been worse if I’d have said it to his mum.
My real name is Eddie Stobart, btw.
View all comments by milo
My dick is so small.
View all comments by Mr Right
Ooooh, BBK, I don’t hate what you write, or you, or anything at all very much. I think I hate the prospect of John McCain somehow winning the election, and I certainly used to hate my ex-wife and therefore white women in general (some of this hatred has left a sticky residue), but hate you?
I wish you’d make even one person you write about seem like a real person, and not just part of some labyrinthine human sudoku.
I wish you wrote something anecdotal; a story rather than another interminable lecture, because you’ve done this format to death.
I wish you were funny. Not your fault.
I wish you’d stop codifying and categorising; this is a numbingly dull and academic approach for a town that is anything but. You could be writing about the Potsdam tram schedules, or the correct way of mass-producing re-inforced concrete. It impresses some, but the Potsdam tram schedules impress some people.
Peace and love, man. Not that you’re going to find either in any quantity in Bangkok.
View all comments by Pants Elk
Ahhh bless…… BBK attempts humour - A bit like watching your dad dancing at a disco with his tie round his head and skidding along on his knees playing air guitar. Slightly cringeworthy
@Milo - Sadly I have a distant auntie whos a member of the eddie stobbart fan club. She’d be thrilled to learn of our correspondance. However she does stink of wee, and lives in a maisonette with 17 cats
View all comments by Young Penfold
YP: you really should stop pissing on your granny.
View all comments by john the baptist
Young Penfold,
It wasn’t meant to be funny.
I was serious.
So I will ask you again.
Is all hope lost?
Is there only pain and hatred and misery?
What’s so funny about peace love and understanding?
—————————————–
If this doesn’t strike home. Maybe the lyrics to the Bruce Springsteen Song “Glory Days” will strike a chord with you.
I had a friend was a big baseball player
back in high school
He could throw that speedball by you
Make you look like a fool boy
Saw him the other night at this roadside bar
I was walking in, he was walking out
We went back inside sat down had a few drinks
but all he kept talking about was
Chorus:
Glory days well they’ll pass you by
Glory days in the wink of a young girl’s eye
Glory days, glory days
Well there’s a girl that lives up the block
back in school she could turn all the boy’s heads
Sometimes on a Friday I’ll stop by
and have a few drinks after she put her kids to bed
Her and her husband Bobby well they split up
I guess it’s two years gone by now
We just sit around talking about the old times,
she says when she feels like crying
she starts laughing thinking about
Chorus
My old man worked 20 years on the line
and they let him go
Now everywhere he goes out looking for work
they just tell him that he’s too old
I was 9 nine years old and he was working at the
Metuchen Ford plant assembly line
Now he just sits on a stool down at the Legion hall
but I can tell what’s on his mind
Glory days yeah goin back
Glory days aw he ain’t never had
Glory days, glory days
Now I think I’m going down to the well tonight
and I’m going to drink till I get my fill
And I hope when I get old I don’t sit around thinking about it
but I probably will
Yeah, just sitting back trying to recapture
a little of the glory of, well time slips away
and leaves you with nothing mister but
boring stories of glory days
——————————
Someday you will sit down, isten to this song, and the words will really strike home.
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
BBK: Not that I speak for Penfold, but I think these ARE his glory days. He’s barely out of his nappies — not old enough to relate to the Springsteen song is my guess.
I, on the other hand, love the Glory Days song, and it holds a lot of meaning for me.
But of course, I’m already over my particular hill and on a quick run along the downhill side of my life.
View all comments by Werewolf
Werewolf,
I think the message for Young Penfold in the Springsteen song is “Time slips away and leaves you with nothing but boring stories of glory days.”
When he is Fat Middle Aged Penfold or Old Wrinkled Penfold what “Glory Days” will he have to remember—-memories of being angry?
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
@BBK: The day Young Penfold is moved by a Springsteen lyric will be the day I choose to sit down and play a hand of poker
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
Double dip: Why is it that everyone who disagrees with BBK’s lectures is described as “angry”? I strongly suspect they’re all smiling as they type. I know I was, when I could be bothered.
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
Bangkok Bad Boy,
OK.
How about the lyrics to Better Dayz by Tupak Shakur?
BigBabyKenny</