At the outset, I want to make it clear that I am drawing a rigid distinction between the whore scene and the world of regular girls, and am discussing ONLY the former.
Well, I hardly know where to begin. Let me start by explaining how I understand the concept of whoring to function. Essentially this seems reasonable to me; the act of paying a whore frees you from the anxiety of rejection and from the necessity of making a serious social effort. To me, that is the entire point of whoring.
If I wanted to make a serious social effort, deploying the full force of my (considerable) charm and entire range of social skills, with the added thrill of never being certain of success, I would be hitting on regular girls.
Lets be honest. Even the hottest whores are not really as hot as many of the girls in the regular girl scene. We make sacrifices when we whore. We are willing to tolerate a slightly lower level of quality if it means being shielded from failure and rejection and being liberated from the burden of being always “on”. We are
willing to pay money to get this.
But in Thailand, things appear to have become hopelessly muddled. Go to the bars and there is every possibility of being rejected. If you hit on the better looking girls, there is every probability. And the rejections are often chillingly devoid of any consideration of your feelings or even dignity.
In short, these whores have ATTITUDE!
Whores with attitude, indeed! This subverts the entire rationale for whoring. Takes away all the fun and relaxation and re-introduces anxiety and effort and alertness. Completely destroys the beautiful thing that whoring can be in theory and replaces it with this hybrid monster combining some of the worst elements of whoring (cash) without eliminating the worst elements of hitting on regular girls! (anxiety, rejection, and social effort)
In short - WTF?!?!?!?!?!
Who is responsible for this ridiculous system? I guess that’s a stupid question, because the system is shaped by the underlying economic forces that govern it, like any system. As long as there is a glut of men willing to pay for the hottest whores, the whores are in control and pull the strings. In other words a dynamic almost identical to the regular girl world exists in the whore scene as well, thus almost reducing the incentive to whore and perverting this beautiful institution, which supposedly has its raison d’etre as an alternative to the regular girl scene, not as a perverse, vicious mirror image of it.
The better question is, whose needs then is this Alice in Wonderland Thai whore scene built to serve? Who does this work for? Well, for starters older farang men who would not be getting ANY girls at all in the regular girl world. Clearly such men can still benefit from this scene, although their choice is confined to the less attractive whores and they are effectively barred from the better ones.
Secondly Asian men of nearly ALL stripes, young or old or fat or ugly, seem to have a chance with the better whores (we all know the score on the whore preference for Asian guys, which by the way seems to exist all around the world for the same reasons, even with white whores. In a lovely little bit of universe-inversion, this preference doesn’t extend to the regular girl world for the exact SAME reasons it DOES exist amongst whores!)
Many farang guys are convinced they are getting the better whores in the bars, like Rainbow, etc - but they really aren’t. After spending extensive time in these bars and the after hours places I have quite simply never seen a farang with one of the really cute ones. Can’t say decisively it doesn’t happen, but it seems highly unlikely. What most guys don’t realize is that most girls choose you almost as much as you choose them, through eye contact, consenting to stand in your general vicinity, etc, etc - girls MAKE themselves available for your approach and encourage you to approach. A farang walks in to one of these bars and many of the cuter ones avoid eye contact or walk to other sections of the bar, thus when the remaining uglier girls pay attention the illusion of interest and choice is preserved. Some of the more astute farang are aware of this phenomenon.
Anyways the whore scene in Thailand follows its own peculiar logic and is designed in a way that makes it useless to a large chunk of the farang population. Seems silly, stupid. Is definitely annoying and frustrating.
But, c’est la vie! Just let no one tell me the Thai whore scene is “amazing”. It might be for Asian guys, or it
might be for truly desperate white guys. For everyone else, no. Sorry, but no.
That’s good satire.
View all comments by fender
Hmm. This certainly holds up for bargirls and freelancers, but less so for the massage/soapie scene, in which the customer simply points and says “I want that one”.
That said, there’s actually a lot to be said for the “attitude”. Sex with the girl who was trying to avoid you in the bar is rarely as satisfying as sex with the girl who was making eyes at you from the moment you walked in the door.
The girl who avoided you in a gogo bar is letting you know that the sex wouldn’t be very good. Whereas in a soapie, you can point at the prettiest one in the fishbowl, then only find out once you’re in the room that she’s only going to go through the motions…
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
Interesting point of view. Although I agree with the observations I don’t agree with the conclusion:
- Attitude: yes. But I think this is the reverse of the medal. The medal being that girls here gives usually much more that in other parts of the world, especially the West. And therefore you kind of need to deserve it. Fair enough.
- Asian men: true that they have good reputation and everything, but some girls have really no taste for asian men, as well as some girls have no taste for farangs. I’ve seen farang with stunning girls in the bars.
But more important than that: the thing you seem to miss (and I am kind of sorry for you) is that you don’t have sex the same way with a girl that you pay as with a girl you don’t pay. You can allow you quicker to very much more fantasies. Don’t mean that you couldn’t have them with a non working girl, but definitely not every time on the first night
View all comments by SukPsycho
BBB - You’re quite right that the best response to the “attitude” is to respect it, but doesn’t it suck that there has to be an “attitude” that we have to devise a best response for? I guess that’s my point. Yeah, we can make the best of a bad situation, but the situation is bizarre and sucks. Oh, and the “attitude” leads a very comfortable and cosy life in the models lounges of the bangkok massage parlors.
Suk - Hmmm, the girl gives more so I should give more (than just money, presumably). Some might call this a normal girl relationship just with money added upfront. To those not able to have a normal girl relationship this makes some kind of twisted sense, as I mentioned in my post. To those able to, what’s the point??? Why not just go with normal girls? (Also, some times it’s just about sex, ST, yet the same dynamics apply)
And I guess that’s my main gripe is that as someone still quite able to get normal girls, I looked to whoring as a fun and relaxing vacation from that world, a kind of floating world, a shadowy demi-monde where I could unwind and not care so much - I see tons of young, good looking Asian guys who could no doubt get normal girls turn to whoring as a kind of relaxed alternative. Before whoring went out of style in the West whoring as a non-serious leisure activity has a rich and storied place in fiction and Western culture in general. Instead, I wake up to the rude reality that whoring in Thailand is merely a harsh and glaring mirror image of the regular girl world, only with worse girls and me having to pay upfront.
So who does this work for? 1) Obviously the young smiling Asian guys who can use this scene exactly as whoring was meant to be used, as a relaxing leisure activity not to be taken too seriously and as a break from the world of regular girls, and 2) Farang guys who for some reason or other need money as the lubricant without which they would have little access to girls at all.
I fall into neither of these categories. Sucks for me and those like me!
And to address your final point about kinky sex, fair enough, but one, to me shame, I’m not really into kinky sex, and two, that still doesn’t make it worthwhile to deal with the bullshit in the bar scene, at least for me. But to each his own.
View all comments by Cromwell Butterfield
Interesting post. Maybe a little extreme but I don’t think far off from reality. However I think a lot of what you describe is the go-go bar. I have been off the go-gos for years now. Apart from getting some drinks with buddies, ogling and chatting - the pulling from go-gos is pretty lame.
I also think the cost model is not there, the service is much lower and the other BS with mamasans and door guys is lame. Give me a place like Angels any day. 2100 all in. Great service, a massage, the full meal deal expertly done, no BS and smiles all around. Once again - you see mostly Asians in these places. Go figure.
I think the Farangs can pull the hotties at go-gos but I just don’t think there are a lot of hotties.
I also think the normal girls are MUCH hotter but tough to bed down, tough to get them to do it as many times as you want and sometimes the other baggage sucks.
However I think it is worth the try. This is the beauty in Bangkok. I mean do you ever really strike out? A night out with a hottie is still fun and if it does not lead to sex. Big deal. I hit a soapie or a massage joint. Similar to what a Thai guy would do anyway.
I think you hit on some points but I think this feeling is mostly indicative of go-gos but the massage scene and the freelancer scene holds plenty of promise.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
I’ve abandoned the GoGos years ago.I don’t need to be abused, insulted or taken advantage of when I go out for entertainment.
The entire Soi Nana is off limits except for my occasional sortie into the Big Mango for a burger.
I have been meeting some amazing women in the oil massage places though.
View all comments by Kilgore Trout
KT - thanks for the burger nod
what oilies are we talking about? Do share…
View all comments by sideshowBOB
I don’t fit in any of the categories you describe, but i still enjoy it. I’m 30, live here, have a semi-regular thai good girl gf, ~2 less regular giks, some friendly girls in gogo’s with which i enjoy spend time with, and i like to take my customer’s and friends for a night out in bangkok, be it in baccara on cowboy, the bed or the pent for example… As ssB pointed there is a lot of other layers and the beauty of it is the wide array of options.
When i was in Europe, i didn’t knew anything about the whoring world, and definitely wasn’t into it.
I don’t go out with the objective to score everytime. In the gogo’s i like to enjoy the view when there’s something nice to look at, then sometimes eye contact happens and there is the possibility of meeting a nice girl, but if it doesn’t, no problem, a good time can still be had.
About attitude, as bbb said, it’s a very good pointer, i like hotties but not so much that i can enjoy a starfish experience… So no hurry, travel around, and every now and then you can stumble upon a nice gem
View all comments by Louk
Oops, sorry, i didn’t include a conclusion ^^’
The point is, there are ways to enjoy it, other than throwing cash around, even if you’re not Asian… I like mine, but it’s surely not the only one.
View all comments by Louk
Sideshow - To some extent agreed. I agree it is worst in the go-gos but I see similar attitudes amongst the hotter whores in the massage parlors and freelancer scenes. I think in general the whore scene - as opposed to the regular girl scene - isn’t as great for farang as it could be and as many seem to believe it is.
But what really stunned me was the go-gos. I just expected a scene entirely different from what I found. It’s easy to get the impression they are the centerpiece and crowning glory of the Thai whore scene, but I guess they are really far from that. Even so, the atmosphere seemed so grotesquely remote from what I had ever understood whoring to be!
As you say, regular girls are way better but tougher. Whores are the perfect stop-gags until you get the regular girls, but when they are almost as tough as the regular girls (the hotter whores at least) in this bizarre whore scene, then that just leaves you with few good options.
It’s just incredibly ironic that I find the one thing Thailand is famous for, it’s signature industry so to speak, turns out to be far from the thing it is supposed to be and that everything led me to expect it was, and that in fact it is very nearly useless for me and I find my sexual habits and behavior essentially unchanged from back home (hitting mostly on regular girls because from a cost benefit analysis that makes most sense)! It wasn’t supposed to be this way - I had planned on living in a whole new sexual world
Alas, it isn’t to be, is it.
Oh, and what/where is Angels????????????
View all comments by Cromwell Butterfield
Louk - I hear ya, I’m learning to adapt
It’s just that the ‘net doesn’t prepare you well for what you find. I’m just venting my surprise!
View all comments by Cromwell Butterfield
Hehe the situation was very different for me, i didn’t knew anything about thailand before getting a job here… So i discovered the thai blogs after spending some time here and after having being introduced to the scene by friends and customers… ^^’
View all comments by Louk
Interesting observation even if I can’t confirm or deny its accuracy. I am not the nuanced connoisseur you extended stayers have become, but for argument’s sake let me assume you are correct. Could this phenomenon be due then to a blurring of lines between the social and work environments and behaviors of these girls due to the pervasiveness of the practice? What I mean is that because in Thailand (or in parts more accurately) whoring is like the equivalent of bartending or waitressing in, say, here in the States. We’ve all had that rude bartender/waitress who approaches her job like she is doing you a favor, not like she chose it and is getting paid for it. Over here, whoring is still such a hidden thing and specialty service that the girl is forced to observe the expectations her client has. There is not an open market with an abundance of ‘consumers’ and ‘producers’ like in Thailand. In essence, it has become such a norm in Thailand that the girl no longer makes a distinct division between the behavior she uses while on THE job, at another service oriented job, or when just out with friends. It is so normal that that its only State side equivalent is the rude bartender or the like. She in fact acts like she is just out socially and makes the same decisions working as she would partying. Or it could simply just be that a few bad experiences with that obnoxious American or creepy German has ruined it for the whole bunch of us. My guess is that it is a mixture of both.
View all comments by tinx
CB: Have you moved there or are you just vacationing? And how did you form your pre-conception…research, word of mouth, etc? And what were your goals for your move/vacation? While we are at it….what is you saddest memory? What is your social security number and what is your take on the European religious turmoil and wars that ultimately Western secularization and the modern nation-state?
View all comments by tinx
I do agree that many farangs seem quite satisfied with girls that middle class Thai men wouldnt be seen dead with. But on the other hand, I have farang resident friends who have hooked up with super pretty Thai ladies.
I have had no difficulty getting the hottest girls to squire around, but I dont find them in go-gos…no way. The only compromise with Thai standards of beauty that I make is that I am not dead set on light skinned women…too many of my Thai and Chinese friends seems to think that light skin equals beauty. In fact because I enjoy dark skin it makes it easier for me to hook up.
If its just sex you are after though, dont worry too much about looks. The ugly ladies can make wonderful bed companions even though they may be slightly embarrassing to be seen with in Bangkok’s best venues e.g. the sporting clubs and galas.
View all comments by Simon
Tinx - What you say has some merit. There are probably multiple motivations converging here. Whoring is quite normal in Thailand, but nowhere near as ordinary and acceptable a thing as waitressing in America.
Part of the problem is that farang are not considered particularly desirable by whores (that doesn’t apply to normal girls, who have a whole different set of priorities) for a variety of reasons. Bearing that in mind, at the end of the day if you look at it from the whores point of view it really makes perfect sense. She’s hot, she can choose. Nothing can be simpler.
I can understand whores who prefer guys who aren’t hideous, but really most whores should be fine with any guy who is normal. The bar should be set at normal and unobjectionable in the whore world, in contrast to the regular world, of course. But if the bar is set much higher than that in the whore world, then it just defeats the purpose.
The point is that in order for the whore world to make sense as an alternative to the regular world, it needs to give you something the regular world doesn’t, some kind of value. I’m finding that for me, in Thailand, it doesn’t.
View all comments by Cromwell Butterfield
Tinx, I’m here on a consulting project, briefly (hopefully). I read up on things before I came and spoke to people once here. Most of the info didn’t pan out. As for the rest, I’ll have my secretary fax you the relevant bio with added essays.
Simon - I’ve considered the uglies, but I just can’t quite bring myself to go that way. Don’t know why. To be honest the best of the go gos don’t seem that fantastic to me, and going any further down the scale just,mmmm, I don’t know.
View all comments by Cromwell Butterfield
What a revelation! Look anywhere on the planet and what do you find -the “hottest” of any group has ATTITUDE and that goes for pretty much any group be they sports “personalities”, business entrepreneurs, TV chefs, artists of any kind, and yes even whores in Bangkok and generally the hotter they think they are the more attitude they have. I guess it depends on what you are looking for, what you decide is the “hottest” luckily each of us can decide what that is for ourselves. One of the most prolific posters here tells us that bargrilsrpeople2 and guess what he’s correct, they come in all shapes and sizes and with the complete range of attitude from piss poor to f****** fantastic, relax and find the ones you want to spend your time with.
View all comments by riodon
It seems we are over-analyzing this a bit. We are all so different in how we grew up so it’s impossible that we would all agree on this. It’s interesting you feel this way but of course many people will feel completely different about it all, like me.
For instance, I think the ‘attitude’ is healthy. I for one don’t like the soapy scene because it’s shooting fish in a fish bowl. Too easy. I need to at least have the illusion of breaking down a working girl with attitude and having a great time with her. Sure, it’s just an illusion but it works for me. When I get rejected or encounter a star fish, yeah that sucks, but it makes the successes even better.
The beauty of the p4p scene in Thailand is that it is so diverse and available. It’s been said MANY times that most of the time in p4p or non-p4p, you are paying for it. One could argue that p4p is cheaper in fact.
The bottom line is that there are so many young beauties available here and you can tailor it to your tastes. You can run multiple threads here very easily. A GoGo thread as Louk pointed out, a Soapy thread, an After Hours p4p thread, a before hours pick up a non-p4p in a disco thread, a 7-11 girl thread, etc.
I personally find it easier and more rewarding here in Thailand to run all of these threads. I disagree with your point that working girls are less attractive than p4p. I think the opposite in fact. I say this over and over, there are just SO many beauties here especially the one’s available for p4p. I don’t see how you can go wrong. Just season to your tastes.
View all comments by pmmp
I found you article interesting. But I think you got off on the wrong foot in the very first paragraph …. you are ascribing a rigid distinction between the whore scene and the world of regular girls where there really isn’t one. The difference in the two is merely a matter of detail. And likewise, the subversion of whoring of which you speak is a reflection of that difference in degree, not a distinction between the species. Ergo, the remainders of your conclusions are likewise compromised by this initial premise.
Humanity 101: Lesson 1: Males have always paid for it. One way or another, they have to pay. Whether it be money, material possessions, or simply a steady supply of meat on the table, males will pay for the “privilege” of female companionship.
Humanity 102: Lesson 3: In “evolved “ western society, the failure of the male to provide the expected payment so referenced during Humanity 101 can result in a VERY expensive consequence. One such example is a process is known as divorce. There are several more examples, such as palimony, which will be covered in Lesson 8 of this unit.
That is just HOW IT IS. Been that way since the first woman told some guy she would make him feel real damned good if he would climb that tree and get that apple. If you don’t like it, you just need to get over it. Even in the “equal rights”-US, the feminists don’t want to vacate the system.
These “whores” of whom you speak are people, too, and they are hardwired just the same as all other people. Their environment has influenced how they react to and interact with the world, yes, but they have the same wants and needs on the rudimentary level. I have seen over the past few days blurbs about how crazy these Thai gals are, but they are at large just a product of their environment, even if there is the exceptional crazy (as in all populations).
I did find your rationale for engaging “whores” interesting. You wrote:
“Essentially this seems reasonable to me; the act of paying a whore frees you from the anxiety of rejection and from the necessity of making a serious social effort. To me, that is the entire point of whoring.”
Pretty well stated. But I want to add, even as an old white guy, you can get the same thing in the US, perhaps not in the abundance, and perhaps not the overall quality (lot of pork over there!), if you have enough money and influence. (Funny how that money thing keeps coming up, isn’t it?) And I’m referring to “normal girls!” Even cute 25-30 year-olds. But these normal gals want something, too. Now it takes a bit more work because the environment there has imbued them with a different value system (lets get real cute and all it “paradigm set“) and a different set of definitions for life. It might not be P4P, STATEDLY, but it still has cost. And it COSTS MORE in the long run. You failed to mention that. So perhaps the old or young white guy that moves here or comes here to take advantage of the “amazing” whore scene is simply a realist who wants to dispense with the hypocrisy of it all and just get down to be basics of existence without the pretense. And is that so wrong?
I want to add one more thing before I go …. I agree with BBB 100%. I’m glad the system works as it does. I had much prefer to have a gal who is eager to please than one that only goes through the motions. AND, even as old as I am, I have had privilege to some of the finest of lookers, P4P and “normal” Thai women. It’s not the age, it’s not the money (that’s a given); it’s all in the attitude.
So BC, if you are not so happy with the scene here, might I suggest (I am not indicting you here, I don’t even know you) that you examine your own attitude and consider how these girls perceive YOU. Then perhaps you, too, can partake in and more thoroughly enjoy the beauty that is the LoS.
Regards,
Khang
View all comments by Khang
Sorry Cromwell, but if you wanted to find really hot girls in the gogos you couldn’t just jump on a plane. You needed a time machine.
View all comments by chrispin
@Khang. Nice! As for this:
“So perhaps the old or young white guy that moves here or comes here to take advantage of the “amazing” whore scene is simply a realist who wants to dispense with the hypocrisy of it all and just get down to be basics of existence without the pretense.”
Spot on.
View all comments by pmmp
I like the thrill of the chase. Going out to a regular club not knowing who you’re going meet or what’s going to happen. Nights get interesting real fast here in Bangkok especially after the girls have downed their share of whiskey (as I’m sure we all know) Hook up or not, its fun and usually the main reason for not hooking up at a regular club is because I was too shy or didn’t take initiative. There are always options out there and you’re never going to be stuck in a bar with a lot dudes. Hell my friends and I complain when we see 1 or 2 other farangs in bar. A lot different than across the pond and a lot more fun.
View all comments by bkk22
Funny. Observing that some hookers have attitude and that it’s possible to be rejected (i.e., not get the leg over). Well, is it possible that the hookers’ attitudes mentioned here might just be mutated reflection of the buyer’s own attitude thrown back at him? The attitude that the full force of “considerable charm and social skills” should definitively clinch the deal with one awesome Cloonyesque grin? In other words, might it be that even these hookers don’t like the presumption of ‘my shit don’t stink so drop your daks, bend over, get cunt-pummeled, and give thanks for your 2000?’ The ‘anxiety’ of being rejected by hookers - that’s funny.
View all comments by fanta
“The ‘anxiety’ of being rejected by hookers - that’s funny.”
Thanks, Fanta …. I tried to say the same thing, but it took me an entire page ….
Regards,
Khang
View all comments by Khang
I have to agree with PMMP on this one. Been to Thailand many times, more a regular of Phuket than BKK but i find that when you compare these beauties to the shit running around in some western countries, well it’s heaven on a stick. Mind you i would like the satisfaction of pulling a regular girl. But to me, at the moment the assortment of beauties availabe for differing prices is just too easy and fun. However, i may be moving to BKK permanently so that may change my perspective on things.
View all comments by Tails
‘Attitude’ is just an extension of the fact that the girls are working for themselves and have a choice. Of course it would be great if all of them made us feel like kings all the time, but we’re as free to take our dollar elsewhere as they are to say ‘no’ or jack up the price if we’re old, fat, sweaty, hairy, drunk, rude or anything else.
I wouldn’t have it any other way, and can only suggest that punters who have a problem with this head somewhere the girls are more impoverished and desperate.
View all comments by Combover
@ CB: my point is not that the girl gives more so you have to give more, but that it makes sense in a way that the relationship be different from the simple pay-and-go of the west. It has been probably better said in other comments following mine, but the idea is the same.
Regarding what I called “fantasies”, no need to imagine perversion or things like this. Take the threesome experience for instance, how long would it take to convince two non working girls to do it and still talk to you the next day?
View all comments by SukPsycho
Language? At the risk of being accused of taking the jelly out of someones donut, with the wealth of words we have at our disposal, surely the contemporary phrase “sex-worker” or similar could be used instead of the biblical value laden stuff.
As for the complaint being tossed around, ie that a woman might actually want or need something beyond the content of your wallet, beggars belief.
If you are of the opinion that beauty is only skin deep, but ugly is to the bone, have a look in the mirror. Would you have sex with the face looking back? One can only ponder what Frued might make of your response to that question.
It just might be that your fantasy is the girls nightmare, but at least she will be able to feed her kids.
JM
View all comments by Jerry Mander
Surely these are premonitions or portents of the end of civilization if not the the end of the world. What’s a self-respecting bloke to do when “Western Women” act more and more like “Eastern Whores” angling only for the contents a fella’s wallet and “Eastern Whores” presumptuously and illegitimately take on the attitudes of ‘normal girls’, get ‘attitude’, reject us and make us anxious just like “Western Women”? This is an abject mixing, blending and bleeding of categories whose prior integrity had held us in good stead mentally, socially and culturally. It shouldn’t be tolerated, but alas it’s now all …well…emasculating and dick-shrinkingly terrifying. Abject, so abject.
View all comments by fanta
Oh Jesus Christ!
Attitude? What about your Attitude. I guessing you’re projecting your experiences of the go-go scene as the norm. That what be a sample of ummm ONE. In your perfect world any PERSON who works in a bar would at the drop of a hat agree to follow you back to your troglodyte home. But No these PERSONS have a choice just like you have a choice to crawl back under the rock where you came from. Now I know you think Dam that Wentworth he’s just nasty and unhelpful but your wrong, just yesterday read I of the utopia that you envision so here’s the link………
http://absolutelybangkok.com/the-thai-forest-brothels/#more-2434
When you get there make sure you go for a hottie and be sure to let us how it all went.
View all comments by Wenthworth
I see you’re holding a BIG chip on that shoulder of yours.
Which girl was it at RB IV that wouldn’t go with you?
Over time, you may learn to let such rejection go much as rain drops cascading down your skin eventually makes its way to the ground.
And more better, after the pain subsides, you may come to embrace such rejection for a man should surely not have EVERYTHING he desires.
And I see no one mentioning a (the) SALIENT point here.
In theory, it may be possible to bed a “good” girl.
However, the SEX will (in all likelihood) be geometrically better with a paid partner that you have clicked with (in others words, a paid partner whom you have not called a “whore”).
…to the extent good sex is important to you.
View all comments by jack dawson
How vary dare a whore not want to sleep with you Cromwell. How dare she indeed! If ever a whore rejects me (well……..the ONE time i got rejected) I put it down to the obvious fact shes a raging lesbian.
I dont see why guys are shocked a hooker might not want to go with them. If you get knocked back, no great shakes. Move on. Plenty to go round.
For those of you who do get rejected and go home alone - heres a handy tip for you while your sobbing in bed alone….. While wanking, press your belly button in and upwards towards tyour chin. gives you a sensation like when your on the swings in the park, or go over the crest of a hill too fast. And then, as your about to get your jester shoes, lean forward like your trying to kiss your knees!
You will never need a hooker again. Just put your thank you money in the collection jar at the mango
View all comments by Young Penfold
“Even the hottest whores are not really as hot as many of the girls in the regular girl scene.”
I don’t buy this. Too many devastatingly hot, light-skinned Bangkok and Chiang Mai girls are in the soapie scene. I assume they’re in the online/DTC scene as well, but I haven’t indulged. They’re in the hostess clubs too, which is fringe-p4p.
It’s been said in this thread that whoring is Thailand is much more of a job, ala bartending or waitressing, than in the U.S. I think this is true, and, in fact, is key to having a great time with the girls. If you realize that they’re young girls who want to have fun, but also have a job to do and need to earn, and treat them accordingly, you’ll be fine. If you’re no fun (in the eyes of the TG) and have no money, you’re SOL. If you’re fun but have no money, you have a chance. If you’re no fun but have money, you have a better chance. If you’re fun and have money, practically all doors (and legs) are open to you.
Some facts, as I see them:
1. Thailand has a 3rd world economy that has its issues with efficiently and legitimacy;
2. Beauty and/or sex is much easier to monetize than in the West, due to the extensive p4p scene;
3. The p4p scene may be stigmatized, somewhat, but MUCH less than in the West, so barriers to entry are low;
4. The country’s culture is non-judgmental/Buddhist/mai bpen rai/etc (this one’s speculative and anecdotal; I don’t really purport to know the true inner dynamic of, say, a Thai family unit or non-expat society in general, though I do have some insight due to my circumstances), and EXTREMELY sexist.
This means that if you’re a girl in Thailand and you’re lazy (mai bpen rai attitude) or have bad non-p4p prospects (poor economy + sexist society), the pressure is very high to turn your physical assets into cash, and it’s very easy to do so. The pressure is even higher if your family is dirt poor and you’ve got a way to help them (poor economy). The prettier and more externally refined you are, the more avenues of earning are open to you.
There’s also psychology in the mix: we’re raised to look down on whores & whoring, so they appear less attractive, and we want what’s unobtainable/harder to get, so regular girls appear more attractive. If you put them side-by-side and didn’t know who was the whore and who wasn’t, I’ll bet perceptions change. I know this happens to me, 100%. There’s a heirarchy of who we’d like to bang that’s completely decoupled from beauty: in a vacuum, we’d rather bang the uni girl than her twin sister coyote than her other twin sister gogo dancer.
From our point of view, of course, it doesn’t matter. Hotness/beauty/sexiness is subjective. And thank God it is, or I’d have NEVER gotten any non-p4p action.
View all comments by fender
- Thai barladies have ugly facial features and flat bodies and those dumb farangs think they are beautiful. So I wonder what those ladies in their home-countries must look like;
- When u see a farang with a Thai lady walking hand-in-hand then nine out of ten times the lady is uglier than the farang;
- So I wonder how desperate these poor dudes are;
- In Singapore many Thai p4p-ladies avoid farangs because farangs have big cock.
One advise to u farang bros: don’t think too much. Just pay the money, fuck and go home. It’s nothing more than a business-deal. Don´t think anybody likes you. They only need ur money. If you wouldn’t have the money, then you would see some real faces.
View all comments by Ato
Of course I’m always better looking then the whores I bang. I’m fucking handsome! So handsome I once jerked off to a picture of myself, and liked it!
View all comments by Mr Right
@ Went and JD: Calm down lads. No need to get personally offended by a fellow’s observation. A little civility makes these forums much more productive.
@ Ato: It is nice to get a little local perspective. A much needed reality check.
@ Mr. Right: I have that same problem. The mirrors in my bedroom are so I can see myself during the action. Here is a vid of me getting pulled over:
http://www.break.com/index/too-super-cool-for-his-ticket.html
View all comments by tinx
MrR: Just once? I’ll fuck ugly once. How handsome can you be?
View all comments by fender
Touché .
How handsome am I? Handsome enough that when I was 19 and down on my luck I charged 1000$ long time. Cratering to women only of course.
I always assumed the ones with the most attitude have several sponsors and are more likely strutting around in front of there friends. Being the most accomplished of the bunch. Either way someone call the whambulance.
View all comments by Mr Right
Thanks for the comments! Some were illuminating, others less so, and all provided me at least with some measure of insight into this situation, even the self-evidently defensive and angry denials and denunciations (lacking in any sense of irony, by the way), which helped me understand better how important this scene is to many and how little attacks on it are appreciated by some. Criticize the whore scene to a bunch of mongers who have grown to depend on it, and really, what sort of response do I expect
But thanks for the more thoughtful responses.
Just a few points. Yes, farang can get the better whores, although MOST cannot. Some can. But with EFFORT. If you’re gonna expend effort, might as well go to the regular girl scene, unless of course, you can’t. Expending effort (I mean making a serious and real attempt to make her like you…..so she’ll kindly consent to take your money) on a whore just isn’t getting value for money. In fact, it’s degrading and demeaning, and if you don’t see that, I would say that you left your dignity at home when you came to Thailand, as sadly, many farang seem to have done. Demeaning yourself in front of a prostitute and allowing a dynamic to be created where you are in the inferior position, where you are the supplicant, is something best left to guys who simply can’t get laid any other way. NO Asian guy would do this, they barely make the slightest effort, watch them next time you get a chance. Indifferent, regal, accepting tribute and dispensing favors, kindly and benign but receiving attention rather than giving attention - THAT is how you are supposed to whore!
(For the irony impaired I am not being ENTIRELY serious here…_ Charming and seducing a regular girl is, however, NOT demeaning, because the transaction there is primarily between desirable personal qualities, emotional affection, and pleasure for both parties, NOT money.
To be clear, I am NOT saying you should be mean or unfriendly to whores. You should be EXTREMELY kind and friendly. But it is HER job to make it FUN for YOU! That guys here are defending the need to make it FUN for the whore (!) already says so much about what is crazy here and really makes me shake my head. Should I cook my prostitute breakfast in bed the next morning as well, or I can expect a refusal to go with me? It really also explains why you hear so many stories about guys getting played by these girls. The girls clearly perceive that many guys relinquish the position of control which is their natural role in the whore/customer relationship, and give the girl the position of superiority, and naturally exploit it. As long as this continues the “attitude” will not be dying any time soon.
I am sure some people find the above “arrogant” and a “chip on my shoulder” - yep, refusing to demean myself before prostitutes and accept a role as suppliant and inferior is no doubt, to some, having a “chip on my shoulder”. This is the effect Thailand can have on the psychologically fragile.
I think my central point still stands, though. 1) The Thai whore scene only works for certain categories of people and is useless for many 2) It’s a distortion of what a whore scene can and should be, properly conceived. It imposes demands and strains that make it pointless for certain categories of farang to patronize whores rather than trying their luck with regular girls.
For me it’s useless, I am infinitely better served in the regular girl world where for the same amount of effort and emotional strain (and chance of success) I can get better, hotter girls. For many here the whore scene remains great and that’s wonderful.
I just think there needs to be a greater awareness of what the Thai whore scene is, how it differs from what many would think a whore scene is, and what sort of purpose it is best suited to serve.
It would have been nice to hear from other farang guys in my position who have also come to the same conclusion, but c’est la vie!
View all comments by Cromwell Butterfield
When it coms to handsomeness, that was settled here in the first major on-line handsomeness poll, where I came second to Werewolf. So I am handsomer than you, whoever you are, unless you’re Werewolf, and I have been rejected by just two hookers, out of a total of, oooh, a lot. Unlike BBB, I don’t click a counter on my belt. One was upstairs at Baccara. She indicated the other girls with the clear implication I’d do better looking at anyone else but her. Fine. I did. The other was a freelancer hanging around the Golden Bar in the small hours. Being given the big freeze by a streetwalker is pretty funny. I turned my head and struck up a lasting and meaningful relationship with another, hotter piece of work. Attitude? Who cares? I’m not about to get all pouty that BEW-HEW-HEW-HEW they don’t LIKE me! There is ALWAYS someone hotter on the next corner, in the next bar, in the next ten minutes. In Bangkok, you could strike out nine times out of ten and still get laid three times a night.
As to the starfish phenomenon - the best way I’ve found of dealing with this is to manhandle her like she’s the most realistic sex doll in the world. Just put her body, limbs and head in exactly the position you want (a mirror helps) and TELL her not to move. Then change her position, as often as you want. Lift her up and put her over the chair, the table, all the time saying “don’t even fucking LOOK AT ME, bitch!” or some other intimate term of endearment. This is a real turn-on (for you - for her - who cares?) If she starts to resist, you’re already out of starfish mode, and go where it takes you!
(This comment has been funded by The BBK Educating The Clueless Masses Institute)
View all comments by Pants Elk
Double dip - nice to see Ato taking time out from his insect cart to vent his spleen here instead of into the week-old oil he fries the day’s mattress-catch in.
View all comments by Pants Elk
Pants Elk, you are one funny dude, and I enjoy ALL your comments. Good attitude, too! Im glad you’re happy with the Thai whore scene
I have NO desire to make anyone any less happy with something they like and enjoy, either - BKK needs more happy farang and less bitter ones!
You mistake my attitude, certainly isn’t BWA-BWA because whores reject me (whores reject all farang who go for the hotter ones, I’ve seen it a million times however strongly some people want to deny it. This illusion of not being rejected is addressed in my original post. But anywyas), it’s more a rueful DAMN, it would be cool to have a whore scene that worked the way it wwas supposed to for ME!
But life isn’t like that. I understand WHY, no biggie. In the meantime, regular girls is the way to go for me, and while it takes effort it’s been pretty good!
View all comments by Cromwell Butterfield
all this talk makes me wanna head to BKK hahaa, and I’ve been there 3 times already this year and countless time over past years. I live in a neighbouring country so I could go to BKK at a price of only a full tank of gas or less hehehh.
interesting facts about Asian men. as one myself I found it both a blessing and a curse. almost everyone there thought i was Thai! everywhere i go, 7-11, MP, gogo,taxis, restaurants…dammit!
so as i strolled along cowboy where usually you see the girls outside trying to pull men inside, i was left alone untouched (sob). of course this only happens if i’m walking alone. i might think that bargirls think that thai men have no business being in a gogo or that they don’t have as many money as westerners, japs etc…that was the first few times…
once they get to know me and that i’m not from around, i found myself surrounded by semi-naked giggling girls. one time they even kept me inside until closing hours so i could accompany them for drinks afterwards. i don’t mind cos i’ve nothing better to do hehehh. i remembered that night, i think every girl in the bar took turn to sit on my lap huhuhh, i mean i was there like 3 hours or more! and one girl even cried when she knew that i’m flying back the next day..and i haven’t even slept with her! no offense guys, but from what i experience again and again, they see westerners as a way of making money and guys as myself could be approachable as a friend. over the years i’ve made lots of friends in BKK from the night scene, it feels just like home
yes, i do spend money on these girls but sometimes they insist that they pay for the cab and drinks etc when we go out. do i pay BF? yes i do if i wanna take a girl out before closing time. after closing hours, i don’t have to pay a single cent. do i pay the girls afterwards? they didn’t ask for it but i usually give them 500 or 1,000bht for “shopping”. but this is only for girls that i know for sometime. and yes i do get freebies from time to time (thats what friends are for LOL). this one girl wanted to follow me to my room as we head out from a local bar at 5 am, i refused cos i don’t want to pay her but she insisted that no money will be exchanged so i took her word for it. turns out shes pretty tired and fell asleep almost instantly. but then it was a morning to remember!
so i admit, i’m a whore when i’m in BKK hahahaa.
View all comments by mrsmokiee
I think you’re pulling our leg. I’ll play along, though. Maybe you just have a huge blind spot.
I think the problem you’re having is that you’re confusing a specific subset of of prostitution (GFE or PSE pulled out of a bar, maybe) with whoring in general. You walk into a gogo, and, 99% of the time, you can fuck any girl you want. Go to Rawhide and pick out the A-list showgirl you think is the hottest. Give the mamasan 100 baht and tell you you want to barfine the showgirl s/t. Out the door you go to your s/t hotel. You may get a starfish. You may get attitude. But you’ll get laid. If you don’t want to charm her or make her like you, tell her you’ll give her some extra baht if she acts like she likes you.
Go Emmanuelle or Caesars or Poseidon or Victoria or anywhere else at 8:00 and you can fuck any girl you want, 100% of the time, no attitude, no starfish. You can sit there and stare at them and make mean faces and scratch your balls and sniff your fingers and point to one with your ball-sweaty finger, then ignore her all the way to the room, and she’ll still pretend that you’re the man of her dreams and you make her cum her brains out. You don’t have to demean yourself by trying to be fun, not one bit!
Go to an after-hours FL bar, and spot the hottest girl who’s not talking to a guy and who doesn’t look happy and isn’t dancing. Know why she’s unhappy? ‘Cause she got no customer. Ask her if she wants a customer. Offer her a decent price, not a low-ball. Wow, suddenly she’s really happy, because now business is good, all because of you!
The essence of whoring, “properly conceived”, is still money for honey. Phony affection costs more, but so does lighter skin, and you may have to pay a tax if you’re heinous and smelly and unpleasant to sit next to. But go to a bar and spread some baht around (like the Asian guys do, btw), and see how friendly and attentive the girls get. You can be as indifferent and regal (LOL) as you want.
Maybe you don’t like spending the money? Maybe you want welfare whoring, or would like the government to hand out whore stamps? If so, then you’re right, the p4p scene does, in fact, NOT work for you, and you’re better off trying to charm the panties off of a “regular girl” who’s not expecting to be paid cash for her gash.
View all comments by fender
Flat out wrong on the “older farang me” In fact, just look around, (if you go to the better spots) and you will see that the guys with the top Thai girls are the older, but distinguished looking farang men who treat the women with respect and upscale experiences.
Naturally for the older fat, sweaty, slobs can only get the the dreqs from the Soi 7 Beer Garden but don’t lumpt them together with the smooth, sophisticated, well dressed 50 and 60 yesr old man of the world.
Such is my observation.
View all comments by 8 Ball
Fender, my good man, you’ve gone straight to the heart of the problem. What you say is exactly at the heart of the issue and illuminates everything by being simply NOT TRUE! What you describe is to some extent at least how it SHOULD work, but doesn’t.
Go to the bars with the hottest girls, and I’m sure we all know which ones they are in both Nana and Cowboy, and you as a farang will have little to no chance with about 60% of the girls. They want Asian men. Not only won’t they GO with you, most of the time if you somehow find it in you to look past the obvious lack of interest in you they will REFUSE to sit with you. You would think at the absolute minimum, really a minimum, a policy of the girls at least sitting with anyone who calls them over for one drink, at least, to avoid loss of face, would be nice, but no. I have SEEN - multiple times - farang customers calling girls over and being REFUSED. I’m not even talking about the girls generally ignoring you, it’s even if you make the first move.
I’ve gone with whores from these places who had never been with farang before - I actually had to “hit” on them, this was before I decided it just wasn’t worth it, and these girls after having become friends will tell you that most of the pretty girls - i.e, those with options, won’t go with farang, for reasons that make a great deal of sense looked at from a whore’s POV. (size, money, etc). Go to Baccarra one day and just sit outside - you will see the supposedly hotter (although these days pretty ordinary) “door girls” pretty much ignore almost ALL farang while running after almost every Asian guy. It’s educative, and quite funny.
There are some reasons why you might not realize what’s really going on which I addressed in my original post, but this is the truth - we can deny it, but it’s how it is. See the last few paragraphs of my original post about how this particular illusion works. It’s subtle.
SOME of the massage places are good, some are not so good in this respect. The models lounge girls CAN choose, and can very publicly REFUSE you. It’s happened. Usually it doesn’t get to that because the natural human approach is to make eye contact and try to establish some kind of “rapport”, however fleeting and vague, with your choice before you take here, and if a particular beauty is pointedly, with set face, refusing your eye contact, it’s easy to psychologically pass her by, barely realizing what has just happened and that you’ve been rejected. This usually works, but try really paying attention and see who gives you attention and who doesn’t and how this affects your own “choices”! And try choosing a girl who refused eye contact, it’s a risk, in short.
I WISH it were as you described it! And I’m trying to wrap my head around the fact that it isn’t
View all comments by Cromwell Butterfield
BigBabyKenny and I were enjoying a schooner of Thai wine at Lord Baron Towers the other night, each of us dressed in velvet-look smoking jackets and knee-breetches, debating this very subject raised by 8 Ball, that of the “distinguished looking farang men who treat the women with respect and upscale experiences.” We’d just attended one of Old Asia Hand’s legendary soirées in his rooms, where he’d entertained us with a Magic Lantern Show of his escapades at the NEP (then a rustic grouping of palm-leaf huts surrounding a clear pool where willing nymphets froliced for a few glass beads or a shard of mirror). The nature of the “upscale experience” when it comes to fucking whores is an arcane subject only vouchsafed to those who appreciate the subtleties of Spy Wine Cooler Sex - a mystic brotherhood of sexual aesthetes who eschew the vulgar humping of the common herd in order to appreciate something on a higher plane altogether. Yes, quality fabrics come into the “upscale experience” equation. Yes, a relaxed bout of karaoke to ascertain how good your choice will be in the sack, followed perhaps by a mood-setting session listening to “The Thousand Pianos Of Kenny Aldridge Play Todays Hits - And More!!!’ on the 8-track. And yes, the final touch - a pyramid of Ferrero Rocher chocolate-flavoured comestibles brought up to our lavish PB Hotel suite by trusted body servant Ato. All these elements combine to ensure our whores get a truly upscale experience. I pity you - the little men out there, the fat, the undistinguished - who have not our subtle abilities and appreciations of nuance that turn a sordid twenty minutes of draining down bodily fluids into an experience on a par with Charles Dance reading one of those great poems by Mozart set to the music of that modern master, Jean-Michel Jarre.
View all comments by Sir Jeremy of Warwickshire
It seems to me that some of you want to find miss right, hold hands and walk down primrose lane. This is Thailand, it for the most part doesn’t happen here. It may for some local but you can bet your last five Baht the chance of that happening for you is nil. Honey says no to you, so what, look 1 degree to the left or right and there will be one that will say yes. Make a list of the ones you want, at least five, pencil them in what turns you on, then hit on #1 if she says no, go to 2, trust me, you will never get to five. Be sure to tell #1 that she is off your list, move the rest up and find a couple of replacements that suit your fancy. Come on boys this isn’t rocket science! If your ego is that fragle, that a woman turns you down, you got bigger problems than you have let on!
View all comments by The Man
@Crom: After that last comment I am a little annoyed that I wasted time reading this Post. You are obviously trying to wind people up. Thanks for wasting our time. Turning the channel…
View all comments by pmmp
@CB: I’m now convinced that you are either trolling, lying or hideously unappealing. You really find that you have “little to no chance with about 60% of the girls”?
If true, it sounds like you’re doing something dreadfully wrong, and that it’s keeping that 60% well away from you.
A follow-up piece would be interesting once you’ve figured out what it is that you’re doing wrong - if you can tone down the superiority complex.
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
Perhaps ladyboys are the answer for those concerned with the knockback. Taller, better looking, paler skin and eager cumslut whores for anyone with a fistful of baht willing to leave the squeamishness at reception. Hmm..knockback or tummy sticks, knockback or tummy sticks…?
View all comments by Combover
Fair enough, pmmp, I hear what you’re saying, and while I’m not a troll, the truth is shortly after writing this piece I regretted sending it because I realized I couldn’t really expect any positive outcome and the whole thing was pretty useless as a topic for discussion. Being a bearer of bad news is never popular.
It is what it is; those farang who are blind to the reality will scarcely want their eyes oepened, they have built lives or vacation routines in Thailand and a great deal of their happiness is invested in seeing things a certain way, and I really don’t want to make any one one less whit less happy. If you guys are cool with the reality that’s all that matters. As I said to Young Penfold, Thailand needs more happy farang and the people on this site are without question some of the more cheerful and optimistic writing online about Thailand, and that’s refreshing.
It would have been cool to hear from people in my position, but that demographic doesn’t seem to be represented on this site.
Anyways, cheers for the discussion.
View all comments by Cromwell Butterfield
cb - the reality is you just don’t understand the scene. My take is you are way to go-go focused for one. Let’s say you are here to chase normal tail. Wow. What a great place for it. I think apart from Japan - one of the best in Asia. Way better than China, HK or Korea in my opinion.
So what is it you are struggling with?
Then apart from the real scene the tweener and part time p4p scene is also awesome.
go-gos mostly suck. for me though. this is all opinion though - right? Seem many do not quite agree with your opinion but I think u harshly stated it and seem to think the scene for you is exactly how it is for others.
It is not.
The scene reacts to the individual. That is the beauty of this place.
anyway. skip the go-gos
try angels.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
@ssB: Amen.
@CB: Your reality is not my reality. That doesn’t mean that one of us is wrong. It means we have different experiences. I have never been in a p4p bar where 60% of the girls are not interested in me. But I have been in several where I am not interested in 90%+ of the girls.
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
I don’t get anything troll-like or “superior” in Cromwell’s original piece or his comments. I just find it all jaw-droppingly unbelieveable. In spite of my facetiousness, I’m not a great-looking guy and I’m definitely no longer in my twenties. Or thirties. Or forties. But I have pulled the hottest girls in R4 and other bars with no problems at all. Really. *That* one you’re probably thinking about right now. About 38k, sillied-up hair, totally fucking gorgeous. And the four or eight others like her from the A-team. How did I manage this amazing feat? I’ll let let you in on my secret. Not by referring to my bound edition of BigBabyKenny guides. Just by looking up at her from the rail and saying “Oi! Wanna go with me?” Nothing more mysterious than that. I prefer to leave out the lady drinks and the table talk, unless, as has happened, they come over and drape themselves over me for a while. I cannot conceive of a younger, better-looking man being ignored by a whopping 60% of the shuffling ranks of nuden-eaters on display. I’m wondering if this whole Cromwell thing isn’t a kind of reverse-psychology anti-prostitution polemic written by either a vegetarian or, worse, a woman. But I do cordially invite him to an evening on the town with me (and maybe a few others - Weredog?) on or around Dec 14, during which I guarantee he’ll be laid like concrete on an interstate highway. Whether he wants to be or not.
View all comments by Pants Elk
@Crom: ssB is convinced you are for real so on the chance that you are not winding us up and actually believe what you are writing I will offer an apology here for dismissing you.
What you said about not having a chance with 60% of the hotter girls and that they want Asian men instead just seemed like you were trying to get a reaction from the many non-Asian men bloggers here. It’s way off base otherwise.
I’ve also NEVER been refused a sit down request and I’m no looker, and I have asked many times so I have quite a large sampling. I’m sure it happens but there are other reasons why it might happen besides “attitude”.
Also, every time I walk past Baccara we are waved in and sometimes they try to drag us in. Always. That’s their job. There are two floors and they want all types of customers.
Your facts are so different than what I’ve experienced and your attitude and claims are so contrary to mine that I naturally assumed you were winding people up.
I am around this every day and have met hundreds of Punters. Not one of them has shared your opinions overall, in bits maybe, but not nearly so extreme as to call it uselessness. There may be a peculiar insanity of the scene but it’s “uselessness to many” is way off. Perhaps the title of your Post should be amended to “uselessness to me”.
BTW, you’re not a bearer of bad news, more like a pathetic fool who can’t find enjoyment in this wonderful p4p world that so many of us have.
BBB is right that you have a superiority complex. If people don’t see it your way, they are blind. Chill dude, it’s not that complex. There are a ton of hot young thai girls out there, enjoy them. The p4p scene is packed with Punters wanting more every night. How come it doesn’t work for you? I have no idea.
View all comments by pmmp
BBB- I’d say that’s true about 90% of the gogos.
CB- I don’t think it makes much sense for you to say that we’re living in an illusion and you’re here to offer us the red pill. This ain’t the Matrix. Your Thailand reality sounds pretty sucky, but there’s a lot of fun to be had if you let yourself have it. Relax and enjoy.
ssB- mmm, Angels.
View all comments by fender