As a blogger, there’s something that started bothering me sometime in the past year, and now it’s positively starting to drive me crazy, like an itch in the middle of my back that I can’t reach and can’t make go away.
Part of writing a Bangkok blog is to write about the nightlife. Some would say that’s the only reason for writing a Bangkok blog, though I would disagree with them intensely. For me, it is about trying to make the experience of life in Bangkok come alive for others; to offer a glimpse into what it means to live here. I see politics, work, personal relationships, transportation, language and many other topics to be relevant topics for me as a blogger. But that’s a different discussion.
For today, I want to talk — not about Bangkok nightlife directly — but about the act of writing about Bangkok nightlife.
I have always written about the three well-known pay-4-play areas: Nana, Cowboy and Patpong. Barring unforeseen circumstances I expect I will talk about them for as long as I write a Bangkok blog.
But I have never limited myself to these centers of sin. My writing has reflected my interests, and my interests are varied.
I live outside of America because I am interested in learning about different cultures. I want to meet and get to know Thai people.
I also enjoy live music, choreographed dancing, good food and other forms of entertainment.
Over the past year or so on Werewolf’s Lair I wrote about German Tawandaeng, Suan Lum Night Bazaar, Tokyo Joes Blues Bar, Saxaphone Club, Ad Here the 13th, Country Road Bar, The Downunder Sports Bar, Duke of Wellington, Hard Rock Cafe, the Pent Club, Resort, the Sky Club, the Memory Club, Karaoke Bars, Sunrise Tacos and Coyote Restaurant on Sukhumvit just to name a few venues.
With the exception of Country Road, the one thing all these venues have in common is that they do not offer a situation where customers can simply point to a girl, order by number, barfine her and take her to a room for sex. They aren’t beer bars or go go bars. They aren’t massage parlours or any other type of brothel-in-disguise. Except for the member clubs (Pent, Resort, Sky) none of them even have girls dancing in skimpy clothing.
For me, this is all about enjoying the experience of living in Bangkok.
I would never ever ever spend every day or every waking moment trotting from beer bar to go-go bar to massage parlor. It could never entertain me. I’m interested in a broader array of experiences, and I’m happy to try out a variety of venues, from the simple low budget outdoor pleasure of Cheap Charlies to the relative opulence of the Steak One Restaurant at JW Marriott Hotel.
As I said above, I enjoy many types of entertainment. While living in Thailand I actually have come to enjoy Thai music. I enjoy the company of Thai people. I enjoy Thai food.
If I was living in Memphis Tennessee I’d be visiting Beale Street. In Melbourne, perhaps the Chinese and Italian Restaurants. Here in Bangkok, I’m not going to confine my nightlife activities to three streets in a city of ten million people. It’s just stupid.
So I go to many other venues and enjoy as much of the rich variety of entertainment as I can find and afford. I think it would be mind-numbing and soul-killing to spend all my time in the same 36 bars for the rest of my life.
Who cares?
Well, apparently a lot of commenters do. Whether it was on Werewolf’s Lair, TFS2M or other sites where I read and write, and whether the author of the blog is me or someone else, every entry that talks about going somewhere to do something that doesn’t lead directly and immediately to getting laid gets these kinds of comments:
sounds. like. one. huge. waste. of. time.
not only a waste of time, but a monumental waste of money…. ‘Tis all just bollocks designed to make losers part with their cash. Anyone who pays for it under the guise of ‘enjoying themselves’ is fooling themselves.
i dont get it.
w/ happy a go go , a SURE thing at 2,600 a songtaow ride away, why would anyone blow twice that to maybe “bag a number”
pt barnum sure was right .
The underlying message from all these commenters is this: If you ain’t getting laid, it ain’t worth doing.
What a load of crap!
Just because I now live in Bangkok, it doesn’t mean that I no longer value the things I did when I lived in America or Australia.
If I go to a venue with superior service, fashionable décor, high quality live entertainment and good food I am happy to pay premium prices, in the same way that if I go to a venue that has uncomfortable seating, no entertainment and average quality food I expect to get it at a very low price.
So, if I go to a small Thai open-air restaurant and have Khao Man Gai with water for 35 baht, it seems a fair value.
On the other hand, if I go to a club with a live band, dancing, great food, and the entire décor and service package to go with it, and I get a bill for 3,500 baht at the end, even though it cost a hundred times more than my simple lunch, it also seems fair value.
Too many people commenting on Bangkok blog sites today bring everything down to the lowest common denominator. Everything is compared to a night at Sheba’s Go Go, Tulip Massage or the Soi 7 Beer Garden.
The message from commenters about any venue that isn’t a go go bar or a freelancer joint is: “Didn’t get laid? Why waste your time?”
Basically, the message in these types of comments is that – in Bangkok at least – the only activity worth doing is having sex with hookers.
Apparently, anything that isn’t directly linked to that activity is classed as a waste of time.
I’ll repeat: what a load of crap!
Life anywhere is to rich and too varied to value everything in terms of getting laid in the process. It’s a ridiculous standard to set, in my opinion. It says that there is only one objective in life – sex with hookers.
So, spending time with friends, watching entertaining shows, eating excellent food, being in comfortable or even beautiful surroundings, meeting new people and generally enjoying life are dismissed as a waste of time and money.
Get real.
I love having sex with bar girls. I love go-gos. I really enjoy sexy massage places and I can spend the odd evening in a freelancer bar. But if that was my entire life I’d go crazy or kill myself.
I also enjoy member clubs for the comfort, the entertainment and the service.
I enjoy Thai clubs and other venues where I can mix with Thai people and enjoy their company.
I like the relaxed atmosphere of low budget venues.
I really enjoy anyplace that I can listen to live quality music.
And as anyone who has seen my waistline knows, I love good food. Hell, I love any food!
Spending time and money in these venues is not a waste of time for me, whether they lead me to getting laid or not.
There’s too much in life to be enjoyed to become pinned to a bar stool, a massage table or a seat in a go go bar.
In my opinion, when getting laid is all that matters, you’ve lost touch with life.
next time you quote me i want a citation. otherwise, it’s the plagerism police for you. i know where u post!
don’t get me wrong. i like it when you’re away spending all that money (for example, paying 100 times more than you have to for chicken and rice). that means there’s one less guy throwing money around at the plaza like it’s water making it harder for us working slobs to get punani at scale.
and who said spending quality time with the native girls was the ony game in town? there’s eating, sleeping, exercise (did i mention eating?) and on a day when i really want to be punished, a round of golf.
thing is when I choose a golf course, i look for value too, wouldn’t you?
View all comments by jack dawson
I like getting laid too.
View all comments by Philip Coswell
Just a point of order, going to Memphis and visiting Beale Street is like going to Bangkok and visiting Patpong. Tourist trap, clip joint, overcharging heaven. I LOVE Memphis, the finest bbq the world has ever made and incredible music, but Beale Street is pants.
Love your stories Wolfie, I still check the rawbangkok site whenever I can at work.
View all comments by tosh
Good read, and your spot on as far as experiencing Bangkok and Sout East as a whole. Mind you some of the girls i meet were just fantastic and i’m sure they gave me more in return that what i gave them, in trems of money, but the whole experience was great. Loved the place from market shopping to even riding a scooter in Saigon (now that’s crazy)but of course it’s always good to relax at your local favourite and try and decide over a beer or two, on which one will it be tonight.
View all comments by Tails
ww - great post.
Have always wanted to tackle this subject. one could go further and even discuss why people think u can only get laid with working girls. Or discuss why some think it is a waste of time to chase non working girls.
Is not the beauty in Bkk in that it is all here? On any given day. Sure - I may have stuck out with a hottie on a night of clubbing but I had fun. She was cool and I will keep at it. No drama. I hit Angels the next day to ease my anxiety. No drama. So much better than in the US when after chasing tail u have very little fallback options for release.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
What a strange post!
First, I guess that all the quoted comments are related to posts about G-clubs, which is just another way to get laid. But not just now.
Second, I don’t know what blogs you read, but in my opinion the audience tends to comment based on the content of the blog. Maybe I am the only one (which I doubt) but I read TFS2M for the info about p4p and nightlife and bars and that’s it.
I know you guys want to talk about politics and other stuffs and I respect that, but I usually don’t read it. When I want politic analysis, restaurant reviews or nightlife events I know where to go. And this is neither TFS2M nor RawBangkok (nor my own blog!).
Don’t judge the people only on their comments on this blog. We too have a life.
View all comments by SukPsycho
suk - I don’t think it was that strange.
I also don’t think it was all related to g clubs either
People always read what they want - I also write what I want.
From day 1 I never created a p4p blog. I created a life in bkk blog which includes p4p, business, politics and so on.
It is what it is.
Having our best month on record in OCT I am inclined to think the model works and people are not only reading for p4p.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
Getting laid is a part of life, or should be. When you first hit Bangkok, you realise just how big a part of your life it can be, like about ninety per cent, so you’re like a kid in the chocolate factory. If you only come to Bangkok as a sex tourist, on holiday, then that’s what Bangkok is for you. If you move to Bangkok because you like the sex aspect of it, it’s very difficult to break out into a wider life. Some people live the sex-tourist life full-time. Bangkok, amazingly, has even more to offer than that, if you’re prepared to give your cock a bit of a break from burrowing into fleshy crevices for a while. It’s one of the greatest cities on earth, for just about everything. But it’s not Thailand. It doesn’t even exemplify Thailand in the way that (say) Paris does France. It’s a hard, hard, city. It’s noisy and dirty and it’s difficult to find a little peace and quiet and impossible to find a natural breathing space. I’d find it impossible to live in. And for many, it’s impossible to get the sex into perspective. But if you let it, Bangkok can do that for you (as it obviously has for WW), and then it’s done you a great good favour. Before I ever came out here, I asked aomeone who’d done BKK what the sex was like. He shrugged, and gently pinched my arm. “Like a mosquito.” That important. That big a deal. He’d got it right. Thta’s exactly how important fucking should be - it should be an accepted, easy, unproblematical part of life. And here we enter into the whole area of Women’s Issues In The West that have made sex something else entirely, so I’m backing quietly out of this thread.
View all comments by Pants Elk
pe -great points.
I have always tried to highlight the huge difference between holidaying in bkk and living here. massive.
I tried to explain that bkk made life so much easier:
http://www.2thebigmango.com/u-of-mango/2007/08/03/in-thailand-satisfying-maslows-first-level-is-easy/
my point was. getting laid or finding female companionship is so easy here. Maybe not finding your mate is but it is possible. this leaves you more time for other pursuits.
so in my world I have more time for everything else since I don’t really worry about getting laid. Its like breathing here.
great stuff.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
Werewolf,
Awesome post! I think people seem to think, and I don’t blame them from my past posts on this blog, that I do not enjoy the nightlife, quite the contrary, but as you said, it is not the only thing in the world. One of the reasons my posts don’t delve into this side of BKK is the fact that other bloggers already have most of that aspect covered. At the same time, it is not my exclusive pastime here. I have found from living here that when this type of recreation is readily available it opens you up to other endeavors because you are unencumbered by the need to constantly woo women.
Living in Bangkok is kind of like the episode of Seinfeld where George had to stop having sex, once he refocused all the energy he formerly used to get laid his horizons opened up. In Bangkok its not so much not getting laid as not having to worry about getting laid. Once this fundamental male need is easily fulfillable it allows one to turn their attention to other things.
Thats just my perspective and I’m sure this is not the same opinion as others
View all comments by TheSoiLawyer
tsl - exactly!
View all comments by sideshowBOB
“What a load of crap!” and “one. huge. waste. of. time.”
That’s what I felt after reading this post. Give me a break, do we really need this very long self-righteous rant from you on blogging in Bangkok and telling people what is right and wrong when it comes to their interests? You give reader’s far too little credit. Do you really think there are a bunch of people who just care about getting laid? For real? Sure, maybe that comes out in a comment but you don’t generalize and characterize people over comments. Guys may talk about getting laid alot because heck it is fun to talk about and pursue, but just because they do it doesn’t mean that’s all their interested in.
Seriously, this post was very irritating to read and I normally enjoy your posts. Your tone is arrogant and you have no right to be. Don’t worry about what other’s think or pursue just get your own head in order. Next time you have an itch in the middle of your back like this one, pay a hooker to scratch it. I will repeat “What a load of crap!”
View all comments by pmmp
…. pmmp ….. WOW.
WW — I wouldn’t put it the way pmmp did, but I do think your post is off-base for mostly the reason Suk said: Yoru criticizing comments made by people on a blog to which people come — no matter what ssB says — to read about P4P.
Yes, Sideshow, the content here does range beyond that, but the majority of articles in the archive are about the naughty nightlife. If you I go down the list of the top 20 blogs at Matt’s site, the ones above this one and all but 1 of the ones below it (mine) are ‘wholesome” things baout temples, cooking, teaching, etc.
I think if you took a post about G-Clubs and put it on one of those “mainstream” sites you’d get a much different response from commenters.
You’ve ignored the context in which comments are made and, thus, negated the point of your post.
View all comments by Pattaya Ghost
pg - not saying it is not about nightlife. however I do not think it is only p4p. My point is - the situation that creates bkk or pattaya or p4p is heavily dependent on culture, politics and business. so I see them as intertwined.
sure - once could separate a blog out or pick themes but I think bkk is big enough and crazy enough to tackle it as a whole. Hence why having u on board is so cool since pattaya is another beast.
people always read what they want. does any always read every article in every magazine. no. they still buy it.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
I think there may be two different registers being mixed here:
1. Whether getting laid in all its myriad ways is all there is to talk about
2. Whether getting laid in all its myriad ways is all there is to do.
WW’s post did seem to start off addressing the first in the negative and then drifting to an assertion that some people are stating the second.
View all comments by fanta
you mean there are people who actually come to bangkok for reasons other than to fuck hookers???
View all comments by MSB
I’m totally convinced by this splendid piece. We should all accept that Mr. Werewolf is actually a noble man of cultured rather than just a sad, old, sex tourist fart.
View all comments by john the baptist
Here’s a thought how many of you would be here if?
1. You didn’t work here.
2. You didn’t like the easy access to women.
3. Just how many of you have Thai men friends that you want
to run with two or three nights a week. Bet you got a
honey or two you would run with five nights a week.
4. You didn’t like being catered to and fawned over most
of the time.
5. You didn’t like the fact that you can get away with
almost anything and everything you want.
6. Yes there are other things here in Thailand to see
and do but having seen 5 or 6 temples or rivers or
ruins and knowing full well what sand and water
looks like, I’m here for the eye candy and all it’s
aspects.
7. Old Thai saying “Up to you Krup”, what ever floats
your boat.
View all comments by The Man
“not only a waste of time, but a monumental waste of money…. ‘Tis all just bollocks designed to make losers part with their cash. Anyone who pays for it under the guise of ‘enjoying themselves’ is fooling themselves.”
you took my comment completely out of context and used it to fuel your very boring argument. i wrote the above in reference to that crap wannabe g-club / rip-off joint in pattaya that the Ghost posted about.
so you do things other than get laid. great. who doesn’t?
the point is that whether you pay over the odds for getting laid or for just ‘getting to know thai people’, you were still ripped off - and that is what people are complaining about, not whether they got laid or not.
View all comments by bongo
@ ssB: The fact that I (and probably others) consider this blog as a P4P and naughty nightlife blog doesn’t mean anything bad. You obviously did a good job creating an audience and even a small community.
View all comments by SukPsycho
suk - sorry. I did not mean it to be negative.
I just meant that I don’t think covering p4p or nightlife should mean I have to stay away from other subjects. Which I don’t plan on doing.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
bongo: No, mate, you missed the point the first time and this time.
Ghost said in his article that he had a great time. You said that people are fooling themselves when they pay money under the guise of ‘enjoying themselves’.
Your comment was off the mark the first time you wrote it and it hasn’t gotten any more to the point by being repeated.
JtB: I never claimed to be ‘a noble man of cultured’, I simply stated that I like to do many things that aren’t strictly P4P. I think a lot of people dismiss nearly everything that gets written here on TFS2M if it deals with nightlife but doesn’t end up with a slam-dunk fuck at the end. I think that’s a shame because I like reading about those things from other people, and the comments like the ones quoted above (and there are many dozens of similar comments on this site that I didn’t quote) dismiss those contributions to the blog as a waste of time. I think that even ssB hesitates to write about those things because of those comments. He has almost stopped writing about g-clubs, he apologizes for writing about business and politics. Shit, it’s his blog… why should he feel the need to apologize?
That bothers me, so I wrote about it.
PG: “You’ve ignored the context in which comments are made and, thus, negated the point of your post.”
Hardly. The post is completely valid, especially in light of the fact that the administrator of the blog said, in his comments to this piece: “Have always wanted to tackle this subject. one could go further and even discuss why people think u can only get laid with working girls. Or discuss why some think it is a waste of time to chase non working girls.”
The fact is, that you are the one who is demonstrating that you may not understand what the blog is, or what it is intended to be.
You are deciding that the blog is only about what you want it to be about instead of what it actually IS about.
Again, the point is that there is a ton of material on this blog site about nightlife that is NOT P4P. Most of generates a lot of interest and comment. Personally, I think the all-too-frequent comments that dismiss this entire body of material as a ‘waste of time’ is off the mark. I’m frustrated by it, and I said so.
The really funny part of this is, the comments I quoted above were about a blog that YOU wrote. They were saying that what you wrote about was a huge waste of time. I don’t agree.
I think it’s YOU who doesn’t get the context here.
pmmp: Cheers
tosh: I live in Bangkok and I visit Patpong. Beale Street is fun, it has good music and cold beer. It’s also an immediately recognizable name and somewhat iconic. I think it’s valid for making the point, which is that a city — any city — is worth being explored, including Bangkok.
It does seem from the comments that in trying to explain myself I focused too much on the non-nightlife aspects of my interests. It wasn’t my intent for that to sound like the point of the post. My bad. IN fact, my point was that people write about BANGKOK NIGHTLIFE but not strictly P4P and invariably get comments that it’s a waste of time.
I think that’s shallow and stupid.
JD: Werewolf “thowing money around like it’s water”
Now THAT’S funny!
View all comments by Werewolf
err.. why so defensive? look over what i wrote. you ignored the point again entirely. i’ll repeat it for you one more time: it’s not about whether you get laid or not, it’s about being ripped off.
..oh and here’s a challenge - try writing a response in less than 1000 words. yawn.
View all comments by bongo
i dont know where all this anger is coming from. you guys need to chill. i enjoy this blog, except for the politics. im sure some guys (OK, maybe like 1 guy) enjoys this blog EXCEPTING the p4p stuff. to each his own.
View all comments by jonbanger
Is WW an English teacher?
Just wondering where he gets all this time to write this stuff. Especially when he is always out enjoying himself more than we could ever do.
Hats off.
View all comments by Daywalker
Perhaps Werewolf could don a bow-tie and his finest smoking jacket and lead us on a walking tour of Bangkok’s finest cultural offerings: Tokyo Joes Blues Bar, Saxophone Club, Country Road Bar, The Downunder Sports Bar and so on. Then we could perhaps debate Thai history, politics, culture and the meaning of Buddhism with his native friends. What fun we would have! And finally, after all that excitement, we would either have to get blind drunk or - better - have it off with the local slappers.
View all comments by john the baptist
WW — I recognized the quote and where it came from immediately. But prehaps I’m not making myself clear.
I EXPECT to get a comment like Bongo’s on that story WHEN IT IS PUBLISHED HERE (or on my site). In fact, when I put it on my blog, it got many similar posts.
People come here and my site for info on hookers (sorry ssb) and how to get laid by them. If they encounter into that does not meet the perceived objective of the site (sorry ssB) then they will express their dissatisfaction. In the case of the Fashion Club article, I was aware I was writing for a minority of hte audience.
My point was that if I took that same piece and put it on Bangkok Diaries or Absolutely Bangkok, it would have been received much differently.
Getting laid was NOT the ONLY thing that mattered to my readers. But it was the reason they opened the piece to read in the first place.
Big difference.
View all comments by Pattaya Ghost
Enjoying the culture that is before you is always a good thing.
That’s how I spend my daylight hours.
Sometimes I even bring a bar girl with me, that is if I can get them up before noon. And they enjoy the day trips.
And it gives one a better perspective on the country - its history, its food, its religion, its physical environment that we are guests in.
There’s plenty of time at night to find a new piece of ass to enjoy.
Werewolf, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?
View all comments by ArtTv
Werewolf,
Part of the problem stems from the fact that there is a group of people who do not want to hear about a wonderful world full of great girls, good times, and fun, that they can’t participate in.
G-Girling is a good example. A lot of guys can only come to Thailand for a couple of weeks a year. With only a couple of weeks, it is pretty hard to hook up with any G-Girls and pretty difficult to enjoy a G-Club membership.
Normal Thai girls are a second example. It really helps if you speak a little Thai but the vast majority of farang lack the intellectual interest to study a foreign language or the limited amount of time they spend in Thailand doesn’t justify the expenditure of time and money.
Hanging with normal Thai people is a third example. A prerequisite to being part of a circle of normal Thai friends is you are going to have dress presentably, have decent manners, and have a modicum of social skills. This prerequisite excludes a significant portion of the expats in Thailand.
A portion of the guys who are excluded from what you are writing about are going to lash out.
They don’t want to acknowledge that there is something good they are missing out on and will try to shout down anyone who says otherwise.
I agree with you that those who just want to bang girls in a one-night stand type framework are only accessing a tiny fraction of the fun available in Thailand.
I am not denying that the one-night stand framework is fun and I am not denying that I don’t do it frequently but when it comes to banging Thai girls, it is great fun to not only bang them but do all the other things you would normally do with a good looking girl you find fun and attractive.
You have to go off The Reservation to do this and the guys who for whatever reason are unable or just too lazy to do so are never going to be happy hearing about someone who is.
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
Jesus, what vitriol!
I, for one, read this blog because I enjoy the commentary on Thailand, in all aspects. Sure, I particularly enjoy the P4P blogs, but I also enjoy the various slants on the politics and day to day life. But I may be in the minority and feel like that because I used to live in Bkk and am interested in what goes on in the country and the myriad of ways the (I cannot remember the colour of) team fucks the whole place up.
I do find it strange that certain commentators spend their valuable time telling the rest of us what a waste of that time reading some blogs was. And waste more of their time in doing so!! If they expect to change the content by their comments they clearly have not read ssB’s comments as to why he runs this blog.
As with much of life, take it as it comes.
Turning to WW’s initial blog, I would be interested in the results of a survey based upon the age of the commentators. I suspect the older ones (myself included) are more interested in non-P4P content while the younger (hornier and more capable at multiple shots, the bastards) lean towards P4P only.
View all comments by Not in Paradise
bbk wades in. . . . yeah!!!
View all comments by dek waan
It suprises me how many people think Thailand is the be all and end all. I holiday there a lot but I always explore other countries too. I cut short my stay in Thaialnd to check there’s not somewhere better I could be. Not taking holidays outside of Thailand is similar to not venturing out of Soi 4. There’s a whole planet of pussy guys…
View all comments by Young Royal
The whole idea of reading about “how to have sex with hookers” is ridiculous in itself. Those reading this blog as a kind of Lonely P4Planet should just get on a plane. You don’t need a walk-through. Hookers have been making it easy for you since the invention of the streetlamp (or maybe earlier). To think of it as an arcane art is to mystify the process to the point of absurdity. As a human being you are equipped with instincts and likes/dislikes that are subtly unique, and they come into play automatically when you come to Bangkok. If you’ve an aptitude for getting into trouble, you’ll find it here. If you’ve a history of making bad calls, you’ll make worse here. But if you’re reasonably smart and not an evil son-of-a-bitch, you’ll have a great time with no hassle at all.
How to have sex with a hooker? Don’t worry. Surprisingly, you won’t be their first customer. And as even Stephen Hawking’s corpse could get laid in Bangkok, so could you. And if you can use the experience to put sex into perspective in your life, that, I’d suggest, is the greatest good you can get from the city.
View all comments by Pants Elk
bbk and nip make some very relevant points that I think are at the heart of this argument, age and length of stay. I am in the older age group myself and, while a frequent visitor, my longest stay has been 3 weeks. At the end of that 3 weeks I was tired of the whole go go and beer bar scene (can’t keep up or is that can’t keep IT up!). I think if I lived in Bangkok I would be following the ww recipe and looking for a more ‘normal’ lifestyle, but I don’t live there. Whenever I visit, I’m only there for a short time so make the most of the P4P scene because I don’t have time to develop relationships with non working girls.
Some people on this and other blogs seem to get way too worked up over things that are personal choices. I have my preferences for my lifestyle in Thailand which are dictated by my circumstances. I’m with ww on this one, if I lived there I think I would be living life very much the way he does.
See you in November….
View all comments by Dave
@P.E.
What he said. How did he get to be so sensible??
View all comments by fanta
Wow, the comments thread here reads like a belt-sander or three all set to “REV-MAX”…possibly Wolf’s entry grazed a few nerves.
I’ve only got two things to add:
1) WW is right: there is a LOT to do in Bangkok besides chasing poussoir. Given that it’s an ugly, polluted city with wretched traffic, a government that appears to be run by 9-year-olds, and an immigration department whose rules seem governed by chaos theory, there HAS to be. Everyone has their own preferences and lifestyle, but for me, unmissables include MBK, the Scala and Siam cinemas, Thai-filtered Japanese pop-culture (citywide but more manifest in certain spots), street food, my handful of beloved restaurants (not all Thai), the full-on sensory overload of Chinatown, etc. And yes, I love having my pick of Thai women: making them laugh, goofing like a maniac, forgetting my middle-aged middle-class status and getting my brains fucked out. OK?
2) Many men turn to websites for information on the P4P scene. My first source of info was a photocopied-booklet called “Bangkok’s Back Streets” written by someone who called himself “Bob Todd” in 1986. I had NO other source, but the author cautioned against the (then un-metered taxis) and other scam-artists, advised bus travel, warned against Patpong aggro, suggested learning a few words of Thai…a basic primer which proved invaluable on my first trip. No one I knew had ever been to Thailand. “Bob Todd” helped me. And now, decades later, guys turn to Websites to help them.
While the gentlemen who regularly contribute to this blog have already learned the ropes, for every one of you, there are several tentative newbies (and we were all newbies once) wondering if it’s “all true.” And some of them may book air-tickets and arrive at Cobra Swamp Airport clutching their new passports…only to be hoodwinked into an overpriced “limo” ride into town, conned into buying overpriced gemstones by a smooth-talking tout, having an underwhelming/overpriced sexual experience, or winning one of the Really Bad Prizes: a robbery of some sort, or an infatuation with a bargirl that sees his pay-packet back home being docked to the tune of 20-50K baht monthly (”but it’s only (insert dollars/pounds/euros amount here), and she really loves me!!”).
I hope what follows doesn’t sound like Zen bullshit, but I agree and disagree with everyone. Not all of us like our som tam phet maak maak and not all of us like showing up early at the Scala so we can admire the faux-Moorish decor one more time (for it is one of the last remaining late-60s cinedromes left on this planet). We have our likes and dislikes, need for new information and resentments at questions asked a thousand times. Many of us, like Old Asia Hand, resent the stereotype of gentlemen residing in Bangkok as being “only interested in sex,” and this is understandable. I somehow manage to enjoy carnal experiences every time I visit the place, but not all sensual experiences are carnal.
And if I think I about it a bit more, perhaps that’s a focal point. Some see sensuality as a panoply of experiences, while others see sensuality as almost exclusively carnal. Given the repressive nature of some Western cultures, this is not incomprehensible.
Just my two cents, thanks for reading.
JtB
View all comments by Jack B
@BBK: I think you’re way off on this one. Let’s take me for example and apply it to your arguments below:
“Part of the problem stems from the fact that there is a group of people who do not want to hear about a wonderful world full of great girls, good times, and fun, that they can’t participate in.”
>> I can particpate and do.
G-Girling is a good example. A lot of guys can only come to Thailand for a couple of weeks a year. With only a couple of weeks, it is pretty hard to hook up with any G-Girls and pretty difficult to enjoy a G-Club membership.
>> I live here
Normal Thai girls are a second example. It really helps if you speak a little Thai but the vast majority of farang lack the intellectual interest to study a foreign language or the limited amount of time they spend in Thailand doesn’t justify the expenditure of time and money.
>>I’m pretty sure I speak more Thai than you do
Hanging with normal Thai people is a third example. A prerequisite to being part of a circle of normal Thai friends is you are going to have dress presentably, have decent manners, and have a modicum of social skills. This prerequisite excludes a significant portion of the expats in Thailand.
>>I interact with Accountant, Lawyers, Contractors, Building Managment, Landlord, and many other “normal” Thai people every day.
A portion of the guys who are excluded from what you are writing about are going to lash out.
They don’t want to acknowledge that there is something good they are missing out on and will try to shout down anyone who says otherwise.
>>Not missing out on any of it
You have to go off The Reservation to do this and the guys who for whatever reason are unable or just too lazy to do so are never going to be happy hearing about someone who is.
>>I do participate
Basically, if you take me as an example then pretty much all of your points are wrong. I also think overall your argument was off the mark. I wasn’t criticizing a guy having fun outside the p4p world, I was criticizing the content of the post itself.
View all comments by pmmp
I first liked reading this site because it was funny ,did not mind the other more serious stuff either,but reading the yarns from the YP and the like were the main point, i enjoy the posts from most of you, funny ones, places that are hot or cold, what funny things have happened to people,but in the last few weeks i hear a tone of bitching between the writers that should be left some where else.we all have or own ideas on whats good or bad, “chill winston”!!
View all comments by Fish
@fish: Good point. I think bitching though is a natural thing and comes along with the rest of it but I for one will watch my tone, or rather hear my tone, well, you get what I’m saying.
View all comments by pmmp
A couple of points to bear in mind about apparent bitchiness: low season, heavy weather. I’ve been kicking monks. And if Werewolf can’t do that, posting something curmudgeonly is the next best thing. What’s wrong with a good old-fashioned rant for heaven’s sake? It’s what the internet was invented for. That and Sarah Palin jokes.
View all comments by Pants Elk
yr - no offense. I live here. it is better here.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
yr: “not venturing out of Soi 4″
Why would anyone want to do that? I personally find it hard to leave the building in Soi 4… let alone the Soi itself?
View all comments by Daywalker
I think the problem facing the TF2SM blogging community - and I include BBB and WW in this - is that they have written so convincingly about sex early in their careers.
You are kind of in the same position as an aging rock star - he wants to play his interesting new material, the fans just want him to wheel out the hits!
If you set out to talk about something completely different from p4p-like Teak Door - or avow p4p while adopting an attitude of grudging tolerance, a la Stickman, you can achieve balance.
But in the case of TF2SM, the genie has been let out of the bottle, is unlikely to be shoved back in completely, and so ends up infecting attitudes to everything.
I also think it’s helpful to remember that the community of single male tourists to Thailand, sexpats and expats is not a country club, cultural association or benevolent society.
Broadly it can be split three categories
Guys who recognise Thailand is a great destination and place to live with the added benefit of easy sex that they may not be afraid to pay for.
Guys who couldn’t get laid if they weren’t paying for it.
Guys with no morals.
Behind a computer screen we tend to assume most of us fall into the first category, but it’s inevitable, as it is with any site where prostitution is discussed, that a proportion of guys will fall into the second two categories. By this statement I don’t intend to insult anybody. I just think it helps explain why certain things are said, and certain attitudes adopted.
View all comments by milo
milo - great points
not sure what u mean on the genie - content and style of the blog have been pretty diverse from day 1.
this is interesting:
so true - what really FUCKS people up is easy or say great sex or regular sex that u DONT have to pay for.
I don’t want to hear the typical monger line of u always pay for it and shit like that. I don’t buy it. There are girls here, in Thailand folks, with money who want to get laid. Or want bf’s or fuck buddies and the strings are not to be seen.
of course on the days that the strings are too thick or I struck out - there is always angels. Good value at 2100 baht all in.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
SSBob, thanks. I concede that the content has been varied since day one BTW. But the sexual content has been amongst the best on the net since day one, and therein lies the problem.
There’s no doubt pulling for free is possible for Thailand. But many guys are drawn to Thailand because they can’t - or are frustrated by - pulling for free in the West.
But, at the end of the day, if you can’t pull for free in the West, you probably won’t be able to pull for free in Thailand. There’s no doubt Thailand allows a man to ‘punch above his weight’. But that doesn’t mean Thai women aren’t discriminating - they are just not as rude about it as Western females!
That’s why you see reasonably good looking well off guys with attractive Thai females, and rough blokes with ropey looking ones. This is a fact that Western women don’t realise when they trot on about exploitation, and one a certain class of Thai mongers don’t want to be confronted with. They are terrfied that if the money is taken from the equation, the illusion of their own attractiveness will be shattered irrepably.
View all comments by milo
milo - true
last paragraph is so spot on
also - I have no issues with the scene here. I am on no moral high ground but people must know that p4p is not the only way. this is a huge city. massive. p4p is cool though. As one of the good girls told me. P4p helps the good(bad) boys be patient when trying to nail the good girls.
spot on.
but sex content does not always mean p4p - right?
Not even sure u have to be well off. Punching above my weight has been amazing here. I am keeping the dreads tight, the jeans clean and the shirts funky. I am peacocking the male way. It works. Have some witty lines, smile a lot, drop some polite thai and u are well on your way.
It’s called the game - bkk style.
my first book.
not sure why people don’t try it more.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
Hey Pmmp,
My comment was not directed at you so no offense intended.
Besides you don’t fit into the description because you choose to do what you do—-which BTW I am not exactly sure what that is.
What I wrote is that a “portion” not all of the guys who for whatever reasons do only P4P try to shout down those who say might be more.
Most of the guys who do only P4P are happy and don’t get down on the others trying to expand the envelope, think outside the box, and who go off The Reservation looking for something new and different. Most of the guys who do only P4P are normal and well adjusted.
It is the “portion” who try to shout down everyone who doesn’t anoint their lifestyle that my comment was directed at.
If you survey all your options and choose what you like isn’t that what Thailand is all about—more options for less money than The World?
Finding out what your options are—isn’t that whatTFS2M is all about?
SSB,
“Dress nice, smile, be polite, speak a little a Thai and you can hang with good looking, fun, hot, sexy, intelligent cool normal Thai girls” ………glad to see someone is reading and taking notes.
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
Reading and taking notes, Kenny. Right.
And I loved this, but probably not for the reasons you’d expect: “… trying to expand the envelope, think outside the box, and who go off The Reservation looking for something new and different.”
Acting and dressing nice to seduce nice girls is NOT exactly breaking new ground. It’s business as usual, Kenny. And in spite of your detailed mystification of the process (with your special insight into the Asian psyche) it’s something we all know how to do, with varying success, without taking notes from you.
What IS “thinking outside the box” for western males is coming to Bangkok for the hookers. Men who don’t, statistically, do that sort of thing at home, find an incredible liberation in the Bangkok sex industry, and its total avoidance of the box-like thinking that controls the standard Nice Girl Pick-Up process you seem to think is so wildly challenging.
BigBabyKenny, the dress-shoed sexual explorer, beating a path to Starbucks for the grateful masses to follow. Or the g-club sexonaut, enjoying a little sophisticated banter with your fair-skinned lovely before a session of Champagne Sex and perhaps a little karaoke.
You should write a book.
View all comments by Pants Elk
SideshowBOB and Daywalker you guys hold the fort while I do a little recon. Bouncing around South America at the moment.
Variety is the Spice of life.
View all comments by Young Royal
Last month I managed to go for a drink twice in the new Mango and missed you guys.
View all comments by Young Royal
yr - we don’t live in the bar. sorry
email us upon arrival for best chance of hooking up.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
Well, that was fun.
Anybody hear anything about some excitement at Parliament yesterday?
View all comments by Werewolf
The Dummies Guide to Finding a Sense of Humor and Not Taking Yourself Too Seriously for Pants Elk by BigBabyKenny
DON’T LOOk IN THE MIRROR.
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
Yes, my lack of a sense of humour has always been a cause for concern.
View all comments by Pants Elk
The Dummies Guide to Finding a Sense of Humor and Not Taking Yourself Too Seriously for Pants Elk PART 2 by BigBabyKenny
DON’T LOOk IN THE MIRROR. SERIOUSLY
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
I don’t think my humourlessness is a laughing matter.
View all comments by Pants Elk
Gotta agree with PE on BBK’s choice of expression (’expand the envelope’, ‘think outside the box’, ‘go off The Reservation’ etc.). Any more cliches, BBK? Perhaps you should try ‘thinking outside the box’ too, or at least try to avoid this sort of twenty-first century David Brent management newspeak.
I’d get off the reservation too if it’s full of those damn Injuns.
View all comments by john the baptist
@John the B — Injuns you say? We talkin’ feathers or dots?
View all comments by The Heckler
didn’t read all the comments but:
I agree that if you live in bkk getting laid is not the only thing and you can have great nights out with friends in a jazz bar or somewhere else.
but g-clubs are another kind of beast:
People go to G-club to try to get laid not for the shows. They try to justify themselves by saying stuff like “beautiful girls,great shows,good music ect…” but it’s bullcrap.
Look at the posts about g-clubs, 95% is about how to get laid there.
I feel that most g-clubs patrons are older guys with money but without confidence with women or pick-up skills. They can “feel like hunting” there but it’s just an illusion.
If you want to have to seduce a girl and take your time go pickup babes in nightclubs, shopping mall, university neighbourhood ect…
Grow some balls.
of course gclubs fan are going to answer, no we are playboys, spend nothing, shag 23 g-clubs girls a week ect… ok then maybe you should try to pickup girls that won’t charge you 500bahts to sit with you 30min…
Before you ask, yes i’ve been to many g-clubs mostly as a “bangkok guide” for friend’s clients and what i saw was certainly not “proud confident man here to enjoy the show and the music.”
So yes it’s a waste of time because even i most people won’t admit it, their main objective in g-clubs is getting laid. They will eventually but it’s going to be very expensive.
View all comments by RRR
Its all about value for us down under, 1 beer + 1 pack ciggs + cover charge to a decent club in Australia = appx. $35.00. And the girls, put it this way, you can put lipstick on a pig, its still a pig.
View all comments by LandofOz