This is in response to this post - Ode to the stomach roll…
Quags
What I am actually getting from your post is that you are frustrated with US political initiates that promote and support “Women’s Lib,” and the resulting change in male-female relations. Now I also agree that what the system is promoting is not true equal rights; with a some notable exceptions, the female activists seem to be pushing for all rights and privileges that males have, real or perceived, without the responsibility and WITHOUT forfeiting their historical privileges. And it seems to have many men up in arms, especially those that realized they have been passed over to jobs/positions in favor of less qualified females in the name of “affirmative action.” (This is happening on a constant basis in governmental positions, which is probably where such occurrences are most frequent.) In many venues, the animosities engendered by EEO and affirmative action programs are a constant source of friction and discord, and it seems to be getting worse. Further, it has changed large proportions of the female population’s attitude toward men and life. And we as males have to admit that many of us have responded in kind. It is frustrating that, in the US, it is hard to go through a single day without hearing females bashing males or the other way around. I mean, in restaurants, grocery stores, and there is always a related news story.
These “women’s” programs are costing the US government billions. They are eating money faster than the US war machine. And they are so interwoven into US law now that it will take decades to unravel. An attorney friend of mine from the US, whom specialized in EEO (a female, by the way), put it best when she said that the government has created the EEO monster that they can’t afford to feed.
So how has all this affected me? I realized some time ago (during my divorce proceeding) that the US in no place for a man to get divorced, pre-nups can be abrogated at the drop of a hat, and that even shacking up could have it’s dangers (for the first and most famous, dial Lee Marvin, c/o Heaven). Courts simply do not favor the male in such proceedings. So I decided then that I would never again marry in the US, but would have to find a place where I did not feel that I was walking a minefield when considering extended relationships. I found that place right here.
What do I think of US gals? Overall, I’m not interested, but there are some nice lookers. But there are such large numbers of women there that have that man-hater attitude. So that, coupled with the political environment, make life there for me unacceptable.
Now you fussed a lot about fat women in your post. I, too, don’t find them attractive at all, and they are overabundant in the US. In fact, some years ago when returning to the US, I got off the plane, looked down the concourse, and realized that I was floating in a sea of lard. It was not pretty. There were some cute gals there, too, but they were almost totally eclipsed by the wall of fat. Kinda like a candy bar floating in a toilet. So I do feel your pain. In fact, I am going back to the states in a few weeks to spend Thanksgiving, so I am REALLY feeling your pain. But it is only for a couple of weeks, and it allows me pause to count my blessings at being able to live here.
But back to the fat: the only time they as a group get under my skin is when they cop that attitude that we have to like them in spite of their weight. I really believe that this is the byproduct of the “feminist mindset,” but that might be open for debate. A few years back, while doing some net surfing, I ran upon a site that had a fat, large breasted white woman, standing full frontal naked, beside a skinny small breasted white woman, like posed. The caption below read something like, real men like real women. Then there was a narrative in which it essentially said that guys that like the small-breasted skinny sorts either are latent homosexuals or pedophiles. Then there was a message board that was full of the “I hate men that don’t like fat,” crap. Now that kind of poison DOES piss me off.
Otherwise, I could care less if they are fat … and if they get up on the stage at a go-go, fine … gives me reason to stare and realize how damned lucky I am to be away from a country where so many women are fat. Now if they get up there and start copping an attitude, now you have full license to yell, “oink,” “moo,” or even “purggy!!” Then, fun will be had by all.
Now, there is a darker side to this. I know personally of an incident where a man visited Thailand on a regular basis, and actually had a steady girl here. So now talk starts going around his workplace that he goes over there to have sex with kids. Some moron stereotyping. Now the poison is added to the mix. A new hire black female comes in, hears the talk, and states that she does not want to work with the person, and that she was in the army, and she knows what those people [Thais] do over there. So now this all rolls up into a full-blown investigation. He was charged with going to Thailand “to abuse and have sex with prepubescent females.” Well, the truth comes out, but the guy still suffered damage, and in fact, sued. Cost the government a bunch. I actually got to sit in on one of the debriefs, and asked why she, the black female was not held accountable for her statements. I got a bunch of blank stares. Then I said, you know, I was a teacher, and I know that we should not be hiring blacks for these positions. Then I restated, and changed black to nigger. Know that a bunch of mouths flew open at that one! Then asked, is this the type of attitude you want to foster? … She has condemned a whole society of people on stereotype. Just like I just did for example. So most Thais sell their kids, and most niggers are stupid? Is that what you want?! Apparently so … they did nothing to her about it.
Is it starting to become apparent where the privilege without responsibilty/accountability lies?
And please note:
THIS RESPONSE REFERS TO LAW AND WOMEN FROM THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. NOT ALL WHITE WOMEN.
Quags, your post was CLEARLY only about US women, though you sent WW into a rant wherein he said that you had referenced ¼ the world’s population, etc. Guess he was ranting, as well as you, and his emotion blinded him to what you had actually said. See, you two could be twins!!
And further, Quags, one poster on here called you a Neanderthal and a mental midget. I think I would pay him no mind, as he sounds like one of those bed-wetting liberals (not to be confused with the normal, well adjusted, constructive and insightful liberals) whose Depends are in a knot.
Last:
Dear Bed-Wetting Liberal: You said : “If you tell a couple over dinner in New York that you live in Hong Kong or Japan, they’re not going to spontaneously conclude you see the world with the kind of ignorance this guy brings to it. If you tell them you live in Thailand, they will.”
Be advised, if ½ of your sample “couple” was a fem-nazi, she well might jump up and call you a pedophile. All that courtesy, USA.
Regards,
Khang
k - great post.
so well said and I think quags was trying to get there but was frustrated.
this line is so amazing:
View all comments by sideshowBOB
I second that - great post!
View all comments by doctorbond
“And it seems to have many men up in arms, especially those that realized they have been passed over to jobs/positions in favor of less qualified females in the name of “affirmative action.””
Dang right it does!!!!! If I was any of the following I’d be so fucking pissed off I’d be apoplectic:
Mike Huckabee
John Kasich
Mark Sanford.
Mitt Romney.
Bobby Jindal
Tim Pawlenty
Joe Lieberman
Typical pussies with no balls
View all comments by fanta
I’ve never said this here and will probably take another poke on the chin for it, but I don’t think I’ve had any problems, or rather disproportionate problems, with American women. I tend not to find them as attractive as their Asian or South American sisters, but I like the fact that the more or less equal opportunities for American women mean I meet more of them who are smart, entrepreneurial, well informed, etc. and so forth. I also live in a major city on the east coast, so maybe they’re prettier here as well, it certainly seems that way when I go to other parts of the States.
I think part of this might be a generational thing as well. Something changed in the way young American women think about themselves around the mid to late 90’s. They started wanting to be sexy and fun and weren’t as concerned about a lot of political stuff. I credit internet porn with a lot of it, but I could be wrong.
I’d guess that if I ever settled down with one girl the odds are pretty good she’d be a white American girl, though I’m still trying to keep that from happening. Brazil!!!
View all comments by tosh
“Then there was a narrative in which it essentially said that guys that like the small-breasted skinny sorts either are latent homosexuals or pedophiles.”
The guy in the center of this image must be one of those.
http://www.b0g.org/wsnm/uploads/9864.jpg
View all comments by BellCurvist
Interesting post
I’m curious why there is this sort of bias against Thailand as a city when compared with other Asian Cities. I’ve lived in Seoul and seen the main farang red light district, “hooker hill” as it is referred to, as well as the others more geared toward koreans.
I’ve also been to Japan. In both Fukuoka and Tokyo there are thriving red light districts catering to all sorts of tastes. Admittedly Tokyo is physically cleaner than Bangkok, but the Yoshiwara in Tokyo is an absolutely massive “boys town.” Although I’ve never been there I have heard that HK has plenty of “nightlife” as well as Singapore. My question is why does Bangkok get lambasted as a den of iniquity by western women when plenty of other towns have this type of thing.
Personally I find Bangkok to be better than Seoul as far as air pollution and Itaewon, a district in Seoul, is a hell hole compared to any red light district in Bangkok.
View all comments by The Soi Lawyer
“Kinda like a candy bar floating in a toilet.”
I like that one!
Not sure I understood the rest of the post though…
View all comments by SukPsycho
“Bed-wetting liberal?” Good Lord, that’s really going to provide a hearty chuckle to the guys here who know me…..
Regardless, dear Mr. Khang, I’m a bit confused as to why you were moved to pin the description on me in the first place. As I read your post, it was — at least in large part — a commentary on the negative reactions that many (most?) people out in the Free World have to white guys who are associated with Thailand. That’s pretty much the same point I was making in my comment on Quagmire’s post, and I’m not sure why commenting on that makes me either liberal or conservative.
On the whole, the standard world view of white guys who are connected with Thailand in any respect is that they are largely society’s losers, bottom feeders unable to interact productively anywhere else. The only point on which I’m unclear how much we differ is how much truth there is in that characterization. Reading postings like Quagmire’s simply remind me that there is a whole heck of a lot.
View all comments by Old Asia Hand
The Soi Lawyer: ” Although I’ve never been there I have heard that HK has plenty of “nightlife” as well as Singapore. My question is why does Bangkok get lambasted as a den of iniquity by western women when plenty of other towns have this type of thing.”
TSL - In the other two countries it’s not broadcasted out by hordes of bargirls and freelancers screaming “sexy man, i go with you!!”
HK has a street in Wanchai with gogos, bars, & discos, freelancers in Lan Kwai Fong, out of the way knockshops and MPs littered throughout the city, and discrete walk ups. Aside from Wanchai, it’s generally hidden from public view.
As for Singapore, it’s the Geylang district and the infamous Orchard Towers aka “4 floors of whores”. Again it is somewhat confined from the public.
Now here in the LOS, P4P is pretty much everywhere you go throughout the country especially in Bangkok. It also doesn’t help when the media constantly covers stories on all the pedos getting caught out here. Thailand’s reputation exceeds itself.
View all comments by anon
anon, I think you are overstating the obviousness of the P4P scene other than in the well-known areas. I have travelled around Thailand many times with my family and not been confronted by scenes that would make my sons ask awkward questions. On the other hand, I have also travelled around Thailand with mates looking (and easily finding) exactly those confrontations. Depends where you look and what you are looking for.
The same is true in most major cities. I would agree that in LoS it is easier to find, but would suggest that the major reason why is one of cost. The salarymen for Tokyo who always organise their meetings in Bkk on Fridays could easily find what they are looking for in Tokyo, it is just much much cheaper in Bkk. Same applies for Seoul, Singapore and most western cities. Maybe not Manila.
I think it is the low cost and therefore frequency of purchase by tourists, coupled with the attractiveness of the women and their easy-going attitude that has led to the reputation of the country.
View all comments by Not in Paradise
“These “women’s” programs are costing the US government billions. They are eating money faster than the US war machine.”
Now that’s just ridiculous!
“A new hire black female comes in, hears the talk, and states that she does not want to work with the person, and that she was in the army, and she knows what those people [Thais] do over there. So now this all rolls up into a full-blown investigation. He was charged with going to Thailand “to abuse and have sex with prepubescent females.””
Oh my god!!! A female and black!! Could it get any worse!!!
“Full blown investigation” and “charged”. Really?? Or are the legal terms deployed metaphorically?
View all comments by fanta
You lot are boring me ..bicthing all of you.. your turning in to the women most of us are escaping from..
View all comments by Fish
Fanta:
The only item you cited where I took literary license, for effect, was the “./.eating money faster than the US war machine.” I have no idea what the military budget is, but the point is this the subject programs are grossly expensive.
And yes, the charges against this guy were formalized and the Agency’s security division did a full investigation on him, including sending two agents to his workplace to do interviews and essentially take depositions. He was totally cleared, but not until his name and reputation had already been dragged through the mud.
As to the cost of these programs, I doubt that even the government could quantify that. But looking at this one case, it’s not just the cost of settlement (I don‘t have a monetary figure for you, but he did get money and also got like 800 hours of leave restored, which at his pay level cost the government almost 60000), but all the man-hours required to administer the programs and then to defend against suits. Just this one suit involved 2 government lawyers spending 4 days just on the EEO proceedings (no idea how much prep time) and an unknown number of lawyers (I think he said at least 3) to defend against the civil suit, which took three days in proceeding. So add on top 2 judges, then investigative personnel, travel and lodging expenses for the lawyers and investigators …. etc., etc., etc., then lose of productivity of this man and any and all persons involved with the process as a secondary activity (EEO counselors, witnesses). Now that’s this one case, in one region, in only one of the hoard of government agencies, each of which has its own EEO program.
I don’t think the average layperson realizes how involved these “programs” have become. There is the EEOC Board, EEOC Office, then within the Agency each regional office maintains its own EEO/Civil Rights staff, then there is EEO Office for the Agency at National Headquarters. Then this particular Agency has something know as an Accountability Board (yet another layer added after a problem in the Dept. of the Navy .. perhaps the Tailhook affair), which oversees the administration of EEO issues. Now all these persons are full-time employees tasked specifically with EEO-styled issues. Then on the facility level, there are EEO counselors who do initial reporting, informational gathering, etc., adjunct to their primary job.
Okay, moving along, that particular agency, like many others, has its “professional woman’s organization” which has conferences and the like to promote the careers of women and who knows what else. And while at these multi-day conferences, they are paid. Some are even paid the airfare to get there. I don’t know if all get the travel and per diem, but I know some did. They also have classes just for women to teach them how to get ahead in the agency. You, if you are a US taxpayer, are funding that, too.
Oh, and there was the time when the Agency decided to send it’s workforce to a program called “Cultural Diversity.” That one dealt with the rights and acceptance of blacks and women. They spent a few minutes on blacks, then the rest of the day on women. You, Johnny taxpayer, had to foot that bill. Complete with transportation and per diem. And by the way … LARGE, NATIONWIDE WORKFORCE.
I could keep on and on with this, but I think you get the point. This thing is a monster, as that lawyer said.
And perhaps some good is coming from these programs, but that are many horror stories, too. I related the scenario about the guy going to Thailand because it to some degree is of interest to all of us that live here. But there are many others that are likewise astounding.
I’ll make this one a quickie! Same agency, man creates offensive work environment for female. His transgression? He called her “lady.” She contended that lady connoted prostitute, and by his act he was creating a hostile work environment. She also had several other females supporting her in this endeavor. Outcome: he was removed from position but not fired. He spent the last of his career in a small, obscure office, embittered, and shoving around a pencil. One of her supporters later worked for me, and told me that she deeply regretted having been a party to that, and that she and the other supporters had been brainwashed by the complainant. I actually think it was more like a feeding frenzy.
And lastly, you even had to be careful how you looked at a female in that environment. Regional EEO personnel even went out to field facilities to explain the right way and wrong way. To do it wrong is call harassment. So the situation is sit up to where some gal could wear in a short skirt hiding almost nothing, but you as a male had best not look at her improperly, especially if she didn’t like you. Now that one is hard, especially if she’s cute! Ponder that, horn-dogs.
Goodbye and good riddance to that world. Sure glad I don’t have to deal with that anymore. Now if I look at a woman wrong, it’s called herASSmint. I like it here ………
Regards,
Khang
View all comments by Khang
WTF is the Agency?!!!
View all comments by fanta
Khang,
Nice write up.
Have you ever dealt with “alternative lifestyle” cases and the associated coercive policies?
View all comments by pablo
Good article- I believe that the consequence of all this “woman’s movement” shit, is that the average woman who lives in a Western Country, is a control freak. But let them think that they are in control, and when they can’t hold onto a guy, because they’re bitches, and we are all over here having a great time and sharing in a relationship with Asian women, whether it be in a p4p format, or a more traditional relationship, where at least some gratitude is showen towards us, i know who the winners will be. Let the fat bitches wallow in there mud bath of self pity fuelled by their controlling attitudes.
View all comments by Tails
Sorry to rain on your parade Khang but your post reads like a piss-stream of frustration and hate.
I’ve said it before on this board - I’m as prone to casual misogyny as the next man - but I also like to be fair and reasonable in my atttiude to the world.
The bottom line is this; women have historically been subjugated by males. Fact.
In this light, isn’t it only fair that some attempts are made to redress this balance - even if it means it’s a bit harder for you, and many others of us on this board, to get a shag?
Given that white males are the most privileged individuals in the world, I always find it laughable when they rail against women and minorities.
OK - your friend should not have been labelled a paedophile. But you should not be calling the woman a nigger either. Two wrongs do not make a right.
I agree with you about one thing - excessive political correctness does not serve anybody, black, white, male or female.
But at the heart of political correctness is an effort to create a more fairer society. It’s a shame that this has been perverted, giving reactionary minds like yours fuel for their prejudice.
View all comments by milo
Point well made Khang.
Many western governments have gone overboard with their “equal opportunity” programs. The US has got to be the worst.
By meeting some governmental mandated statistical requirement and providing “political correct” brainwashing, the organization MIGHT avoid becoming a target of a lawsuit.
I don’t see how placing an individual’s marginal qualifications on equal footing with superlative qualifications on the basis of gender or race is an overall net gain to society. I’m guessing that many people here never knew, let alone those who’ve forgotten, the cultural, social and business environment of the US when these programs were put into place.
That profile of the USA is long, long gone.
If a white business owner wants to pick some stupid hick high school dropout like me over a black Harvard MBA why should the government step in? Forget the competitive disadvantage and poor business decision that would be. On what basis should the government (once again) be interfering with the free market? On the basis that all organizations in the US are run or owned by white males and every one of them are prejudiced against anyone who isn’t white or male? Now that’s a prejudiced attitude.
View all comments by Bubba
Bubba - Haven’t we just seen the biggest-ever example this week as to why elected officials should interfere with the free market?
You also say: “I’m guessing that many people here never knew, let alone those who’ve forgotten, the cultural, social and business environment of the US when these programs were put into place.
That profile of the USA is long, long gone.”
The point is, that USA isn’t long gone. If it weren’t long gone my youthful avatar would have the election in the bag, baby.
I’m a young guy, and the civil rights struggles were a mere 15 years before I was born. That’s a heartbeat in my history my friend.
If equal opportunity programmes have gone too far, surely every CEO would be black or female. That’s hardly the case.
The point is not that every business is racist. The point is that the prejudices of the past have created conditions which mean that not everybody is on an equal footing. Why are attempts to correct that inequality so wrong?
View all comments by milo
milo: You’re sorely misinformed. First by your suggestion that a free market was at work with thw subpeime crisis and secondly by suggesting I support the bailout. I suppose it would be pointless to mention that it was the very policies of the government forcing lenders to make a percentage of loans to underqualified borrowers (one of several governent acts) which allowed the problem to incubate in the first place. Your comparison is not only irrelevant, it’s wrong.
That you suggest only when every CEO is either black or female have the equal opportunity programs gone too far exposes the extent to which your opinion is prejudiced.
View all comments by bubba
If equal means that the lesser candidate gets the job, because he or she belongs to a minority, then it’s wrong.
View all comments by hanuman
A high up employee at my workplace just came back from Bangkok & Pattaya with her boyfriend. Can’t rememeber wher they stayed in Bangkok, but they loved it. They did go to the Duke for a drink, & went to Patpong. Then they had 6 days in Pattaya on Soi 8. They absolutely loved it, & I thought she would come back all anti Thailand.
Only negative comment was “I didn’t like the sweaty, overweight, old men on Beach Road at night though”.
View all comments by AUK
auk - none of us like the sweaty, overweight and old mean on beach road but for me I really hate it when they meet all of those fine qualities and they insist on wearing nothing but a banana hammock.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
The cost of one full alcoholic beverage will be left with the Mango Bar publicans so that Milo can claim it at his will.
View all comments by fanta
Hi Milo — yours is exactly the response I was waiting for! And you aren’t raining on my parade at all … it’s almost always sunny here in the Land of Smiles, even when it’s storming out! (Which it is right now!)
I do think, in a couple of regards, you are pissing into the wind, though.
Firstly, I would advise in the future, when responding to an adult post, to refrain for using childhood aphorisms. When I was 3 or 4, I too was told that “two wrongs don’t make a right.” I was also told that I should never show my pee-pee to little girls. I had been caught playing doctor with the neighbor girl, you see. Of course, in today’s “excessively politically correct” society, that would possibly mean my little 3-year-old ass would be in court with my parents for sexual assault, even if the little girl was the instigator of the play. (Don’t laugh … in the states, they’ve tried to do it already!!, but I think the little boy was actually 5.) …But I digress, pardon ….
When I grew up, I realized that if no guy ever showed his pee-pee, and no gal ever showed her kitty, then in 100 years, the human race would be extinct. Actually, a little before that, I learned that when a person or entity perpetrates a transgression against your person or your concern, there are times when retaliation is necessary to preserve a healthy state of relations, “two rights don‘t make a wrong” be damned! In the political world, it’s called a retaliatory strike. In the human world, those that don’t at least stand prepared to do it go through life as suckers and targets. So don’t you agree that you should dispense with the childhood clichés?
But that aside, my nigger comment was not said in a retaliatory vein. Further, I didn’t call her a nigger. I stated that “niggers” shouldn’t be hired for those positions. And I meant any black and meant to use stereotype “blacks are stupid,” then made even more offensive with “nigger.” I patterned to statement to match the circumstance as closely as I could, in a few milliseconds I had to think about it, and in a very offensive fashion as demonstration of what they, the government, were allowing to be said of an entire race of people, the Thais. Milo, social inequities will never be mended within a society by giving license to an “aggrieved” group to perpetrate the same turpitudes for which they themselves, at least nominally, seek remedy. But the US government apparently did not and does not see it that way. Oh well, I tried. Now I’ve moved on.
Hey man, I love facts!!: you said:
The bottom line is this; women have historically been subjugated by males.
Fact.
And I got one for you, too:
Historically, the white US female has never been held to the general performance standards of the white US male and indeed is the most pampered “class” in the human species.
Fact.
Now, if you want to compare facts sometime after we clear up some of the abstracts, fine, but for now, I think you get the point, in fact.
Got a sad little story for you, Milo. I had a friend, Joey, that was killed in Vietnam back in 1972. He was 19, and had been drafted in 1971. I spoke with his Mom shortly thereafter, and we actually spoke about that honor and privilege to serve thing. Somehow, she just didn‘t see it that he was privileged. And one thing that really bothered her was that 2 months before his death, his girlfriend, Beth, had sent him a Dear-John letter, and had been seen around partying it up with her girlfriends and had even been seen with some older guy at a couple of nightclubs. Just didn’t seem fair to her. Somehow, Joey’s Mom just didn‘t get it, Milo. She’s passed on now, but I sure wish you had been around then to explain it to her.
______________________
Now, the part I have waited for …. YOU GOT IT!! You wrote:
“I agree with you about one thing - excessive political correctness does not serve anybody, black, white, male or female.”
You do understand what I have been saying! And yes, I feel a lot of harm is being done.
As I was reading your response, with all its fact, subjugation, bottom lines, privilege, clichés, etc, all stated as unassailable platitudes, I almost stopped reading. I thought perhaps you were some school kid. It was kinda like a fart, Milo … lots of air but no substance.
But I misjudged you. Glad I didn’t stop reading. Thanks for your understanding. And thanks for contributing.
Regards,
Khang
View all comments by Khang
Arguing about white women is the same as arguing with them. An exercise in futility.
View all comments by Wombat
@Fanta. Thanks for the drink big man
Bubba, I did not suggest you supported the bailout. What I was alluding to was the failure of the US government to regulate the financial sector more tightly - ie interfere with the free market - and the costly consequences of this.
Khang - sorry to hear about Joey. But to give you one of my mother’s platitudes, ‘I’m not sure what that has to do with the price of fish’.
And here’s another for both of you - guess we’ll have to agree to disagree!
View all comments by milo