This post was inspired by The Dummies Guide to Negotiating Price with TG Working Girls by BigBabyKenny
The girl was dancing on a small stage in the corner of the Gogo bar. Small bumps, cute face, she was quite pretty and danced really well. I called her to my table. She came. But only after the 3 compulsory additional songs/dances she had to perform.
I quickly asked the “let’s-get-to-know-each-other” questions and then asked the only one I cared about:
You come with me?
- How much you give me?
- 500 baht.
- Huh???
- 500 baht?
- No way!
- You ask me I tell you. How much you want?
- 1500 baht.
- Ouch! Come on, this is Pattaya. Girls go for 1000 baht (negotiation bullshit)
- No. Many time I go 2000 baht. 1500 baht ok.
- Thatís a lot. You smoke no condom?
- No. Can not!
- 1500 too much! 1000 ok?
- No. Can not. 1500!
- You kiss?
- Can not. My mouth (pronounced Maow or something like that. I like it) has problem. See?
- Ok 1500 too much then! 1000?
- 1000 can not. I go 2000 many times. 1500 ok.
- Ok. I like your ass. 1500 ok.
This happened in Pattaya but this would be just the same in Bangkok. Just replace 1500 with 2000!
In my opinion, pretty bargirls donít negotiate. They don’t have to. Even in low season they will find a guy to take them home. Maybe not the handsome one, but he has good heart 
And they’re not here to have fun anyway but to make money.
Ok, sometimes, for some reason, she likes you, or she wants to go out, or it’s already late, or she is drunk and then she agrees for a cheaper price, but this is the exception, not the rule. Most of the time she will stick to her price.
I am in my mid thirties. Not handsome. Not ugly either. Not overweight. Not skinny either. Let’s say I am your average punter. The thing is: I don’t entertain the girls. You won’t see me buying lots of drinks to lots of girls and going home alone. You won’t see me throwing ping pong balls to them like one would throw rice to starving children. You won’t see me barfining them to go to an after-hours disco where all their friends came by themselves and are available.
When I go to a Gogo, except when I am having fun with friends, I am a man on a mission. Find, barfine and go home (to put it nicely). I sit down, have a drink, find a girl that I like, call her over, have a quick chat, sometimes buy her a drink (sometimes not), agree with her and go. I don’t take the super friendly one. I don’t take the one who agrees with my price. I take the one I fancy. The one who turn’s me on. This is sometimes a bad choice, but that’s the way I am.
Having a good bargain is not the goal. The goal is to have a good time at a decent price and in a reasonable time frame (I will not spend the night to try and convince her). And this usually doesn’t put you in a situation where your negotiating strength is at its best. Or you are very good!
In my opinion, what’s important is not to pay less, it’s to not pay more. Not more than the ongoing rate. Once you know the rate, it’s up to you to decide, but if you think the girl is worth it, why not pay the rate? If you start to negotiate more than you should, then maybe you’re not really convinced. And if she’s ok to go for less than the rate, then maybe there is a problem?
Banging bargirls is supposed to be fun. Once you’ve got her laughing, the question of money rarely comes up - until you reward her with a goodbye gratuity. In contrast, Suk Psycho’s account of joylessly emptying his nuts into an endless succession of reluctant minimum-wage cum-buckets is downright depressing.
If I end up like that, please shoot me.
View all comments by Eniac
Excellent post Suk.
Hemingway, rest his soul, would be proud.
I like the part at the beginning where you tried to get her for less than market. I was rooting for you there for a minute.
Reminds me of a story about me. Took one this week who’s so hot I was like that kid in “Fast Times at Ridgemont” who had used up all his conversation. We did a lot of our communication by sign, like me approving the purchase of a cola for her without me knowing it.
When it came to how much, I breathed a deep sigh of relief when she came in at scale. Our transaction took less than the words. And what followed also left me speechless.
View all comments by jack dawson
@ Eniac: for you “paying the price” is obviously opposite to “have fun”. Be real man, this is a place where the girls work. You really think they comes with you because you’re a fun bloke???
Now if one day I come to think that bargirls want to f… me because I makes them laugh, please you shoot me first.
@ jd: thanks
View all comments by Suk Psycho
Suk Psycho
You have misunderstood my point. If you want to persuade the gogo girl of your dreams to make sexytime with you at a sensible price, building a rapport with her is a lot more effective than trying to beat her down through grim-faced negotiations. You’re trying to arrange a night of fun, not to disarm North Korea.
If one of those “dummies” you were preaching to was dumb enough to follow your advice, it would probably ruin his night.
You’ve been mongering for so long that scoring sex with beautiful women has become about as exciting as collecting baseball cards. You appear to be in the grip of a grim sexual compulsion and I suspect that any sense of fun on your part has long since evaporated.
I’m not trying to put you down. I genuinely understand your predicament and there but for the grace of God etc.
There’s certainly a lesson for newbies here but perhaps not the one you intended.
View all comments by Eniac
I agree with SP, having fun is important. I mean, duh, of course they’re working girls, and only an asshole (or a deluded fool) would think that showing them a fun night out is “enough”…in the end they’re doing it for the cash, but as long as everyone understands that and plays by the rules, there’s no reason to call attention to those rules. Keep up the illusion and make it as pleasant an experience possible for all involved, I say.
As far as bargaining, I have a strict personal policy against ever bargaining for, as the girls call it, “body price”. To me it’s demeaning to them to bargain for that. And in 6 years of living in Thailand, going with probably close to 200 girls, I could count on two hands the girls who brought up price beforehand, and on one hand the number of girls who asked me for more than my initial statement of what I would pay them.
On those rare occasions, I would at that point very politely and respectfully tell them “good night,” and tell them that I don’t bargain for body price, and that I’m sure they will find someone who will pay what they want.
View all comments by ratchada
Oops…what I meant to say was, I agreed with Eniac!
View all comments by ratchada
SP - Thanks for the post.
Eniac - You have some interesing points. However your posts seem to be more negative than they really need be.
View all comments by JustinCider
Thanks for the post SP
(there’s always one… my rude git was Anonzo - remember him? I suspect they are children of parents who decided that it was important for them to ‘express themselves’)
Keep up the good work
Doc.
View all comments by doctorbond
I was told by a local BKK friend you all know that the price never becomes an issue for him prior to the next morning. He said he simply pays what he fell the experience was worth. Being aware of going rate, if the experience was good he paid current scale, if it was great he raised the rate accordingly. If star fished she may only get cab fare. I haven’t tried this method yet, instead continuing to pre-negotiate and sometimes having to deal with that demeaning and sticky matter of Body price. If the negotiations go smoothly the experience isn’t tainted, but on occasion this has proven to spoil the mood and overall experience.
View all comments by nurseRon
I think Suk P stated his case and frankly from reading Enaic I think he did to. I don’t really see any blatant put down here or an attack on the post. Just a huge difference of opinion and that is just the way it is sometimes.
I think this dickering over the price of girl posts are touchy subjects. I feel pretty differently about it myself.
anway. I think the dialogue has been good and people, or at least me, assume that these touchy subject might create touchy responses?
anyway. suk - good post and thanks for hanging in there.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
Well firstly I have to say that regardless of the hard facts of the trade, if I was a girl being approached by SP - no drink? no friendly chat? - I would probably tell him to fark orv. BGs are people too, you know.
I can’t remember the last time I took a go-go girl anyway. And I can’t remember the last time I negotiated a price before going with a girl either.
What I can remember is that there was only one time when the girl complained I gave her too little the next day, and she was probably right
View all comments by martin99z
At the risk of being called a “rude git” again, let me elaborate.
Suk Psycho’s negotiation technique is fine for Amsterdam and Hamburg but Thailand is noted for the “girlfriend experience” and heavy-handed upfront bargaining is almost guaranteed to spoil it.
In the context of providing advice to newbies, SP’s article is just plain wrong. However, it seems now that I’m the villain of the piece for pointing this out.
If he knew how sensitive the modern whoremonger had become, Ernest Hemingway would surely be turning in his grave.
View all comments by Eniac
Just my two cents: “sanuk” is an important part of the equation, for both parties. And of course, “sanuk” isn’t quantifiable (many things generally considered “sanuk” by Thais, like all-night Sangthip-fueled karaoke binges, don’t make me tingle).
Laughter and joking is part of the bargaining process. Don’t buy the gal a drink, tell her a joke. If an above-scale price is quoted, make a joke out of it (”not a week, one night only na khrap!”). Once you establish that you’re a friendly farang, you’ll have more fun and better sex too.
It’s a transaction and the client should receive a fair rate. But intangibles come into play here…a girl can tell when you’re smitten, and will try to leverage that. If you’ve zeroed in on a particular gal and No Other Will Do, you might have to do some bargaining. But, be jovial about it. Other tips: buy some snacks streetside, have some beverages in the fridge. Sa-peak as much Thai as you can muster. It’s traditional to offer a drink of cold water to visitors, so offer some nam yen as soon as you get in the door. Little things like this go a long way…and help keep expenses down.
JtB
View all comments by Jack B
Thanks to those who don’t want to shoot me yet
For the other ones, let me bring a few precision here:
- If you don’t understand my straight forward approach, think about massage parlors: what do you do there? Pick up a girl, call a number, have a quick chit-chat while going to the room, and have fun. Don’t you have fun there? I do. For me, Gogos are pretty much the same.
@ Martin99z: I didn’t say I don’t chat, but I just keep the friendly chat at his minimum. And regarding the drink, there is a reason: I am not interested in the “collecting drinks” kind of girl, who sit with you only for that.
@ Eniac: I think you didn’t really get my point. In the example above I negotiate because I am in the mood of negotiating that particular day, but most of the time I even don’t, because I know there is no point. We agree and we go. And yes this is fun.
- Regarding the price being quoted upfront: I have no problem with that. And in my opinion a guy pretending that he never heard the line “how much you give me?” is just a liar. And there is a reason behind that: You are probably super friendly and super funny, but the girl has been with other guys before. Some of them were also friendly and funny when she met them. But not when it was time to pay the bill. In my opinion, a girl who doesn’t specify the price before hand still doesn’t have understood what her job is about. And she will inevitably meet “friendly guys” who will take advantage of that. And then be more cautious.
View all comments by Suk Psycho
Suk Psycho
The fabled “girlfriend experience” is almost unique to Thailand and it’s currently available in almost any gogo bar. The hard edge that characterizes the sex industry elsewhere can easily be sidestepped here and that’s what makes the place so special.
When you treat the gogo girls like western hookers, it changes them - and not for the better. Over the years, many of us have noticed an increasing level of pushiness in the bars and I can’t help thinking that guys like you are partly responsible.
If you just want to get your rocks off at a set price without chatting or buying drinks, why don’t you just go to a massage parlor?
View all comments by Eniac
@ Eniac - sorry about the ‘rude git’ bit - however, it is specious to suggest that you simply need to add a bit of sanuk to make p4p morally uplifting.
View all comments by doctorbond
doctorbond
What are you taking about? At no stage did I suggest that p4p is morally uplifting.
Please quit making stuff up.
View all comments by Eniac
Making stuff up is sanook.
The internet is sanook.
Therefore:
Making stuff up is the internet.
View all comments by Rene Descartes
@descartes: I think, therefore…your quote is GENIUS! Making stuff up on the Internet is so much sanuk that I wonder what people did for sanuk before the Net. Well, no…actually I don’t.
@suk psycho: yes, sometimes things do need to be negotiated. I prefer a nice soapy myself from time to time. And I really don’t care for some of the mercenary tactics that have crept into the go-go scene over the years: fistfuls of coins on the change-plates, mistakes in addition or note-denomination, mama-sans demanding drinks, girls demanding drinks for themselves, and their friends…in the LOS, best to deflect these ploys with a smile and a “no thank you.”
It’s all a big game anyway, play it and have fun!
JtB
View all comments by Jack B
@ Eniac : That is funny. I think exactly the reverse: I think that these are guys like you who spoil the girls with expensive drinks and nights out and everything, confusing them in a point that they eventually forget that they have to ‘perform’ at some time.
I do agree with you that the GFE is unique to Thailand and that this is a good thing. But still we have to remember that this is p4p. Being direct doesn’t mean being rude. Some girls like it, some don’t. You’d be surprised to see how many are kind of relieved not to have to go into the same boring discussion again and securing quickly a decent revenue.
If you just want to get a GirlFriend Experience. Why don’t you get a GirlFriend???
View all comments by Suk Psycho
@ Suk Psycho - Contrary to what you may believe I agree with many of your opinions. Cost is another matter. Were you negotiating short or long time?
@ Jack B - What era are you referring to? I remember those tactics being prevalent in the go-go’s on Patpong Rd circa 1989 when I was truly a hansum man. Was just a lot cheaper then. Lady drinks 20 baht for example.
View all comments by Wombat
Suk Psycho
I agree with your first point. However, I don’t recall advocating that you should be whisking them off on a fragrant cloud of champagne and roses. I merely suggested that you might try to inject a bit of fun into the proceedings.
It works for me.
I also agree with you that many gogo girls just want to get the deal done. Personally, I think that this is a step backwards but I guess it’s a sign of the times. When the GFE is finally consigned to history, many of us will mourn its passing. In the meantime, I’m enjoying this unique aspect of Thailand while it lasts.
Try it. You might like it.
View all comments by Eniac
What’s a girlfriend?
Let alone
“a girlfriend experience”
View all comments by jack dawson
@Eniac - maybe this is too finer point stuff - let me simplify for you:
Your argument is that p4p + sanuk is ok whereas p4p without sanuk is worthy of execution? Can’t say I agree.
View all comments by doctorbond
“The goal is to have a good time at a decent price and in a reasonable time frame”
Hmmm…. ‘cheap charlie?’ Many…many times, I chuck the girl 5 large BEFORE we do anything and tell her she can do what she wants and leave when she wants. It works for me. In fact… too well, as I can never get rid of them.
In my experience, you get what you pay for.
If you were cleaning 2 peoles cars, one gives you $20 and the other gives you $100…. it’d not be a hard guess to figure out which one received the best cleaning job.
View all comments by Daywalker
doctorbond
First you call me a “rude git” (apology noted) and then you try to smear me by making stuff up that I never said (I’m still waiting for that apology). Now you’re patronizing me with your “let me simplify for you” remark.
Obviously, I’ve upset you but please try to put the sniping aside for one moment and concentrate on what I actually said:
“Suk Psycho’s account of joylessly emptying his nuts into an endless succession of reluctant minimum-wage cum-buckets is downright depressing. If I end up like that, please shoot me.”
My comment was a certainly a bit glib but what I’m touching on here is the serious topic of sex addiction. Like junkies trying to recreate the buzz of their first fix, many ordinary guys end up using prostitutes in a way that goes beyond simple recreation.
Walk into any gogo bar and, amongst the happy faces, you’ll see plenty of guys looking as miserable as sin while surrounded by beautiful naked women.
How did they end up like this? Did they expect these hookers to bring them lasting happiness or bolster their flagging self-esteem? Having experienced the inevitable disappointment, did they respond by banging yet more hookers? I suspect that they did.
Living in Bangkok, I see these casualties of the nightlife scene all the time and I’m determined not to become one of them.
“If I end up like that, please shoot me.”
I meant what I said.
View all comments by Eniac
I have to chime in here and say that I definitely agree with where Eniac is coming from. I was a little shocked to read this article, as it just seemed so cold and clinical vs. the fun I know of picking up bargirls. And yes, Daywalker called it with the “The goal is to have a good time at a decent price and in a reasonable time frame” = cheap charlie :-/ For me price and timeframe arent at the top of my list. I want a nice, cute girl. And if I’m rude or a pig to her, chances are I’m not going to get much in return.
Personally I’m all about the GFE, and thats what I love about the Thai girls. It doesn’t have to be wham bam thank you maam, they kiss, hang out, eat breakfast, or whatever you like on top of the super hot sex. You treat them like whores and that’s all you’ll get. Again, I think Daywalker’s approach of more than less will get you a lot further than being a cheap charlie (not to say that I want to pay 5 large
View all comments by Walter Ego
Eniac: Your first post and your last post look a bit different. I mostly disagreed with your first post… I 100% agree with your last post…
WE CAN”T READ MINDS HERE….
View all comments by John Brown
Eniac, why is it your insistence on the courtly, lighter, more civilised, more fun, way of conducting the oldest transaction in the world written in such an acidly mean-toned way? I know internet tone is the hardest thing in the world to transmit and receive, but you sure don’t come across as a fun guy. And you’re serious when you say “shoot me”? Ri-ight …
I have found that a sanuuk approach pays real dividends in creating a warm, intimate, personal connection with your own very special prostitute, to the point where the very idea of “money” becomes abhorrent to you both. I recommend carrying a “sanuuk kit” - my own - a cheerful “Hello Kitty” bag - contains the following fun items guaranteed to create the elusive Girl Friend experience with that “special someone”:
- Stretchy latex balloons (no, real balloons). There’s nothing like making a few balloon animals at your table to break the ice!!
- Can of Silly String. Squirted in her drink, up her nose, or down her G-string, this good-time classic is guaranteed to get the party going!!
- Fright wig. Simply don an orange curly clown’s “do” to bring a smile to the face of even the steeliest mama-san!!
- Whoopee Cushion. Slipped under the derriere of your petite amour as she sits next to you, this tried-n’-tested laff-getter will establish a deep non-commercial bond between you!!
But seriously, folks - some of the best sanuuk I ever had with a go-go girl started with me saying “Oi! Want to go with me?”, and avoiding the table talk altogether. You can dress it up how you like, justify it however you like, add your own personal spin, but all it comes down to is bang-for-buck. And what’s wrong with that? What’s even non-sanuuk about that? I’m not paying these girls to be charmed by me. I never made the terrible mistake of thinking they were. Taking a go-go girl is part of an evening’s entertainment.
View all comments by Pants Elk
I still say the discussion is moving along okay with people stating their sides. I think this is a touchy subject with some people treating the girls like meat while others seeing it as an experience. Can’t say who is wrong or right here but I agree that Suk makes it seem like a pretty cut and dry TX but it is also just an example of one outing.
Comments like this can help to make it seem like that:
When I read that I tend to agree with Eniac since it’s my choice as to what I give the girls, what I ask for and up to them as to what they deliver. This idea that the service and how we deal with it should all be uniform so as the girls all react and charge in a uniform way has always bugged me. The thing I like about Thailand is that I don’t always feel like it is so TX oriented - even if it is.
So I think good points are being brought up by all here but there are some clear dividing lines around how one deals with it all. Heavy opinions all around but I agree that if I am not having fun and the girls are not having fun then what is the point to it all? For some they will say the point is I get laid and that is what the girls are there for but then it turns back into the so called selfish TX mode that some - including myself try to avoid.
Still a good thread…
View all comments by sideshowBOB
Hum, interesting. I knew that this post was a bit provocative but I didn’t think people would react on the things they reacted.
- Cheap Charly? I guess this one is due to the fact that I start with a negotiation. I thought people would understand that this negotiation was a joke as the girl ends up with the price she first stated. I should actually have mentioned that usually I don’t even do that. Although I always make fun with the “how much you give me” by quoting a smaller price than everything she would expect. Wombat can confirm that the price I usually mention here are way higher that what he pays. And I make it no secret that I usually go ST 2000 in BKK.
- No fun? This one is less surprising. I guess this comes from people who have hard time to imagine that you can have fun outside of the bar while skipping the bar part. I have no fun in a Gogo. Or only when I go with my friends but then, as I said, we usually leave alone. When I go by myself, I have no fun there. But this doesn’t mean I have no fun after I left.
- Sex addiction? “many ordinary guys end up using prostitutes in a way that goes beyond simple recreation” Once again we are opposed here with Eniac, as for me “simple recreation = ST”. And has nothing to do with an addiction. Let’s call it a leisure.
@ssB: your last comment is a bit one sided as the line you quote from me is the answer to a line from Eniac, which also said that the way we act has consequences: “When you treat the gogo girls like western hookers, it changes them - and not for the better.”
And yes I do believe that the action we have have consequences and that you can mention that to people. Doesn’t mean that they have to follow your opinion.
View all comments by Suk Psycho
suk - I think what u see is u touched on a sensitive topic even if u did not think it was one. We posted this on the 13th and it is still the top post. So I think this is cool - sure no one can agree on all of this but I do not see any personal attacks. So all good in my opinion.
NOt sure anyone could ever agree on this topic - did you forget how volatile the BBK post was to begin with? You must have known you were going to be treated to some level of similar discourse. No?
all good stuff.
keep it rolling.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
Pants Elk
You asked this question:
“Eniac, why is it your insistence on the courtly, lighter, more civilised, more fun, way of conducting the oldest transaction in the world written in such an acidly mean-toned way?”
Yes. I do see the irony but I’m sure most of us recognize that there’s also a flip side to the wonderful world of whoring which can transport us from blissful euphoria to utter self-loathing.
Before you write me off as a nutter, let me give you a couple of examples.
It’s Farangland. It’s two o’clock in the morning and I’m stumbling home drunk. On impulse, I call a number displayed in a shop window and ten minutes later I’m getting undressed in a shabby room. The whore isn’t the worst I’ve had but she’s got saggy tits, stretch marks and bad hair. There are no washing facilities. She smells. Reasoning that she might look better from behind, I put her in the doggy position and start banging away. It takes a while and, when I’m finally done, I realize with horror that the condom is broken. She seems quite unperturbed and another punter is already waiting in line to stir the porridge.
Walking home, the stink of her is still on me and I’m asking myself what possessed me to creampie a crack whore when I’ve got a hot girlfriend waiting at home. At this point, the self-loathing kicks in.
Fast forward ten years to a small apartment in Bangkok. It’s two o’clock in the morning and there’s a lightning storm going on outside. I’m enjoying a moment of post-coital togetherness on the Doremon themed bedsheets of a delightful Thai showgirl who has just bitten the top off a beer bottle for me. The flickering light of the TV (tuned to some stupid Thai soap opera) is playing across her face and I’m suddenly immersed in a moment of hyper-awareness. It’s hard to describe the feeling but it’s a bit like having an out-of-body experience without the out-of-body part. It was pure bliss.
If anyone were to ask me “When and where were you happiest?” I’d never admit to that one but, if I ever need to think happy thoughts to beat the polygraph, that’s the memory I’m going to draw on.
It’s hard to imagine two more contrasting whoring experiences and I hope the doubters now understand why even a misanthrope like me can find it in his black heart to treat a common prostitute as kindly as his own girlfriend - and to deride those mongers who don’t.
So there you have it, Pants Elk. A privileged peak into my Jekyll and Hyde psyche.
View all comments by Eniac
@ Eniac - I dislike people putting others down and thats what you did to SP. Where you disparage SP’s approach and call it joyless I can understand what you mean - but you are trying to draw a relatively meaningless distinction between his approach and yours.
You have my apology for any paraphrasing - but I maintain that it is specious to make these distinctions.
He’s a monger, you’re a monger and I’m a monger.
View all comments by doctorbond
I’ve been trying to figure out who I agree with and disagree with here. I’m still not sure, though nearly everyone has had me nodding in agreement AND offended my sense of what’s correct at least once in this string.
I’m one of those dour looking dudes that you see in the corner at a go go bar, yet it doesn’t mean I’m not enjoying myself.
I tend to scare the shit out of most go go girls — well, out of a lot of people actually — with my large frame and serious face.
But it’s just my personality. I find it uncomfortable and unpleasant to chat about inane topics in the midst of ear-splitting music, yet I do like to feel some “connection” (even if it’s entirely one-sided) with my soon-to-be girlfriend-du-jour.
As such, I usually buy a drink for a girl who attracts my interest, and if things go well over two or three minutes I quickly offer to barfine her and take her to more pleasant surroundings. If I find that I’m not attracted to her I cut bait quickly and I feel better about 150 baht drink than a 1500 baht short time fee to find out.
Once we are out of the go go bar, I find that I can relax and inject some fun into things.
I tend to have a lot of tried and true methods for relaxing the girl and building in some ’sanuk’.
Sometimes I give the girl my shaving kit and ask her to shave my face for me… something most girls have never done. They are nervous and giggly throughout, but the experience is oddly intimate.
Another thing I sometimes do is show them photo albums with pictures of me as a baby and young boy. They are amazed to think I was once a child with hair! Again, they relax and start laughing immediately.
Sometimes I pull out my Thai schoolbooks and show them my Thai writing which is a source of amusement, as my spelling is often suspect. They teach me a few Thai words and laugh at my mistakes.
With all these preliminaries done, when we get to the sex, I honestly believe I get a better experience than I would without them. I could be deluding myself, but absent a funny and engaging personality (which I simply do not have) it’s a way to build some sanuk and rapport with Thai girls usually half my age.
Although I got slightly misquoted by Ron above, it was me who said that I don’t bargain price with girls in advance. I will forgive SP’s sharp rebuke that “a guy pretending that he never heard the line “how much you give me?” is just a liar” because he was responding to a paraphrase of what I said rather than to me directly.
I never ask a girl “how much?” and for a long time I never had a girl ask me. Sadly, these days I’d say that about 15% of girls will ask “how much?” though the other 85% will usually just go with me without ever asking.
For the girls who don’t ask, I do pay what I think is fair in the morning (and I believe I am usually on the generous side).
But if I get ‘dead fucked’ I don’t, as Ron indicated, give them only cab fare. If I get sex from a girl, poor quality or not, the girl has done her job and deserves to be paid at or near the going rate. I just won’t ever see her again.
Unless she’s been angry or verbally abusive or tremendously stupid about something I’ll pay her what she wants if it’s a bit above what I put in her hand.
I will generally not argue if a girl thinks she deserves 200 or 500 baht more than I’ve initially given her — after all, she’s shared her body with me in an intimate way. I reckon I’d have to be a cruel and hard-hearted bastard to argue a few hundred baht with a woman who is giving me such and intimate experience.
For girls who ask in advance, “How much?” I will usually reply with a silly number: 500 baht, then go through a short process or finalizing a fixed price with them. If we can’t sort out a price in 15 or 20 seconds, I’ll usually cut loose and simply find another girl.
My priority — absolutely without a doubt — is on an enjoyable experience with a girl who makes me happy. When I weigh up my values and what I want out of life, I know that I’ll never regret having 500 baht less in my pocket, but I will always treasure the fun girlfriend-type experiences I enjoy with the Thai girls who share my bed.
As always, treasuring the experience over the cash, I tend to go back to the same girls again and again. This also eliminates the need for negotiation, as I know what experience I’ll get and the girl knows how much I’m willing to pay.
I would never write a “Guide to negotiating price with bar girls” because I don’t think that the negotiation process is a valuable tool for me. I want great experiences, not low prices, and I am always happy to reward a girl if she gives me what I’m looking for.
The comment above I probably agreed with the most was:
View all comments by Werewolf
doctorbond
Suk Psycho has defended his views in a robust debate and won my respect. You, on the other hand, have resorted to name calling and misquoting me. SP might prefer to catch a urinary infection than to receive any more “help” from you.
Your assertion that there’s no difference between the fabled Thai “girlfriend experience” (my approach) and a joyless fuck with a brothel whore (SP’s approach) is quite simply preposterous.
What planet are you on?
View all comments by Eniac
Eniac: “there’s also a flip side to the wonderful world of whoring which can transport us from blissful euphoria to utter self-loathing.”
I’ve only ever taken whores in SEA. It never appealed to me anywhere else, and part of that is due to the weirdly innocent, no-bullshit, casual attitude of the girls here. But yes, I’ve done the self-loathing thing. The times when you wonder if you could possibly be in a more squalid situation and still have a pulse. When you realise you’ve hit the bottom and been exploring the width for so long you forgot there was an up. The euphoria and bliss, too. The times when you enter into a kind of drugged sex trance. I’ve actually hallucinated because I was so wired into the sex. And I have to say these extremes, and the routinely pleasant animal humping in between, have little to do with the girl I’m with.
There’s just the mood, and I doubt she shares mine, or yours, or the next guy’s. Even coming at the same time is having two orgasms, not sharing one. What’s going on in her head as you labour to a sweaty conclusion? Not what’s going on in yours, that’s pretty certain.
I’m not saying treat them like meat. Sure - be nice, treat them like a lady. But I see nothing wrong - and everything right - in getting the finances sorted out as early as possible. It’s no big deal, and it can be part of the fun. I was once given a price of 1300 baht by a Nana car park ornament - when I asked why, she said that if she asked 1500 I’d only bargain her down. Brilliant. So I gave her 2000.
View all comments by Pants Elk
@ Pants Elk - I’d long suspected that this corner of the Internet might harbor intelligent life but I’m still quite taken aback by its abundance here.
@ Everyone else - Give yourselves a pat on the back gentlemen (not you doctorbond!)
View all comments by Eniac
I’m still pissed that I’ve been paying ‘5 large’ to all these brasses and not one of the girls told me it was too much
View all comments by Daywalker
My thoughts are more in line with WW’s. When I think back on all the instances where I negotiated up front, most of those ended up being terrible experiences. Those are the girls who pull the sister locked herself out of the apartment routines.
I don’t mind paying for one or two drinks to find out if the girl has a good personality and will be someone I can enjoy spending time with.
Then again, I rarely do ST. I’m a LT sort of guy. That’s just how I’m wired. So investing in someone with a personality makes more sense for me. And the only way to find someone with a good personality is to spend some time talking to them. Are they easy to laugh? Do all they care about is getting bar fined?
And like WW, I tend to spend a little time with them when we’re back at the room. I’ll normally have one of my Learning Thai books sitting out on the coffee table which the girls always pick up and giggle as they read through. You’ll usually get a nod or smile indicating that they approve that you’re making an effort to learn their language.
If she’s hungry we’ll grab some street food. If I have my camera sitting out I’ll show her some pics from my trip. The whole point is to get her to feel at ease with you as another human being.
I’m not necessarily trying to charm them. I know what they are and what I’ve paid them to do. But it does seem to make both of us feel a little more comfortable in making that transition from bar to bed. I consider it another small investment in ensuring a good night for myself.
From WW’s previous writings I peg him as a LT’er too. I would guess that a lot of the guys who side with Eniac are also LT’ers. Is that where the line is being drawn with a lot of us? Is this a ST vs. LT sort of mentality? Not sure but an interesting theory.
I know that in the end she wants my money and I want the use of her body. That is what the whole p4p industry is designed for. However, we’re still talking about human beings.
View all comments by Billy Bangkok
“a joyless fuck with a brothel whore”
This is so much that this makes me laugh. Eniac, you win. However, let me explain you in a next post how I can turn “a joyless fuck with a brothel whore” into “a fun fuck with a professional but funny Gogo girl”…
@ doctorbond: Thanks. It is true that the guy wanted to shoot me at first but don’t worry, I am fine and things are ok now
Let’s get back to a friendly discussion.
View all comments by Suk Psycho
@ Suk Psycho - I look forward to it.
@ doctorbond - After reading your older (and better) posts on this forum, I now feel that I judged you a bit harshly. Following SP’s lead, I’d be happy to get back to a friendly discussion.
View all comments by Eniac
I find a girl or mamasun wanting to negotiate a price is one of the signs of a crap time, right up there with ‘want two ladies?’. I just state how much I pay if they ask (same everywhere - don’t want girls pissed off at me because they find out I paid someone more), and I don’t budge - Mai dai (cannot), mai bpen rai (don’t worry about it).
Find the hot girls who think having sex with you would be fun, or at least an entertaining way of making money rather than a chore. They are out there. Tip them with repeat business.
View all comments by Cabby
I’ve got to speak with them a short while (at least).
I find if I can have a laugh with them in the bar and ‘click’, it will transfer to the bedroom.
I have done the ‘pick the most beautiful’ or pick one without talking (beyond the price) and it’s been shit sex.
And sometimes I don’t barfine the first time I see her. It may take a few visits to the bar before I decide.
Not one will ever control my emotions.
If I don’t get to fuck the ones I want to, it’s no big deal, there are loads of other (new) ones about.
View all comments by Jimmy Cricket
First of all thank you for the mention of my original post.
One thing to keep in mind when negotiating price which wasn’t mentioned in the original post is that the first time price establishes a minimum price which is damn near impossible to reduce on future visits.
For most guys who spend more than a few weeks in Bangkok on a vacation, the first time with a GoGo girl is like a test drive. If everything is good and the girl is fun, the girl will go on The List and when you are in the mood and have the time, you will drop by the bar and take her home again and again and again.
If you get lazy negotiating the first barfine, the additional money will snowball on future visits because the girl will expect the same money and even with the negotiation skills of Henry Kissinger and the social empathy of Oprah you will not be able to get her to go for less because it implies that you were unhappy on previous bangs. The extra 500 or 1000 THB can become several thousand if you end up barfining the girl multiple times.
On the flip side, if you stiff a girl her particular GoGo bar will likely become off limits to you for the foreseeable future. You can visit the bar, but getting another girl from the bar to go home with you is going to be difficult. Word will be passed that you stiffed the girl. The reason you stiffed her will likely get lost in translation and you will be marked as a guy to avoid. If you are on a short Bangkok vacation this probably doesn’t matter but if you live or spend extended periods of time in Bangkok, writing off one of the major GoGo’s is not costless.
A second point is that I LIKE to buy the girl a drink and talk to her a little because it is an effective way of gathering intelligence about the girl. The GoGo’s are covered in beautiful girls so if your only objective is to bang a beautiful girl that is pretty straightforward. Like most Bangkok regulars the novelty of banging beautiful girls has worn off. What I am looking to do is bang girls that are beautiful and fun to be with. The surefire way to determine if a girl is going to be fun to bang is, oddly enough, to talk to her.
A lot of GoGo girls are fun to take out on the town. Personally, I enjoy it when a hot sexy girl dresses up nice to please me, I take her to a disco where I liquor her up, dirty dance with her to get her all heated up, and THEN take her home, peel her out of her clothes, and bang her silly.
So I don’t think taking GoGo girls our for a night on the town or buying them drinks is always time and money flushed down the toilet. Depending on the girl and the situation it can be either an investment or part of the fun.
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
big kenny you hit the nail on the head there mate,its great fun to get them to wear something nice,then spend a couple of hours taking them out,having a good time,making both of you laugh,have a drink or two,even taking then to a moovie and having fun in there-point is anything different than wham bham thank you mham.i always find the more relaxed you can get them with you the better the sex,i even give some a massage first ,but ive never had a sour face or bad sex from them if you treat them like your girlfriend-ive even had a few freebies offered that way.the saying you get what you pay for means nothing -more you get back what you give works better for me.
ok im working on a samui posting for all bbk boys .cheers rt
View all comments by zepplin
I think WW sums up how i play the “game” and it really is a game we play. It’s a chase of how much fun can you have.
The difference is how you define fun: Is fun getting the cheapest lay? Enjoying a GFE? Banging Like a Pornstar? the list can go on.
I used to negotiate before but these days i find myself only talking about how long she will hang with me and this is after the BF when we are having some fun..
I have calculations in my head already and will pay depending on experience with a base salary then going up but it dependent on number of shags, fun factor, nasty factor.. ect.. it all plays a roll.
I have found lately that i have not paid a BF in BKK the last few times i have gone, i have hit the clubs (discos) early and usually find someone i want to shag by 12AM-1AM, i am a late sleeper and dont wake up until 4PM the next day so my monger time if different.
Again great discussion. I haven’t found too many disparaging remarks after all we are big boys and this is the net.. we do not all express ourselves the same way.
GL
View all comments by GoodLife
“I have calculations in my head already and will pay depending on experience with a base salary then going up but it dependent on number of shags, fun factor, nasty factor.. ect.. it all plays a roll.”
- yeah.. sounds like loads of fun that? I got a headache just reading it.
And as for Zepplin comment ‘get back more than you give’.. doesn’t that make you the brass?
View all comments by Daywalker
Two oddball examples from this weekend:
Sunday - Erotica / Nana Plaza — What I deemed the hottest girl in the place (at 1 a.m., mind you) agrees to go LT for 2,000, which was my first offer. Stunned, a recofnirmed that I was talking LT for 2K, not ST. She reconfirmed, gave me 3 rounds and offered to stay with me throughout the day. I declined, but she returned to fetch a fotgotten personal item in a long red dress. She said she was off to Ballroom Dancing practice at 5.
Monday - Sheba’s / Cowboy — Lovely, tiny, 20-yo, very affectionate thing has the oddest pricing scheme I’d heard in 5 years. Said she’d go LT for 2,500, but ST was 2,000. Not enough English to explain why that was though. But having had 3 rounds with Ms. Erotica and 3 rounds at Tulip, I wasn’t really up to paying even that. I went back to the hotel and got a good ngiht’s sleep.
View all comments by Pattaya Ghost
Great thread guys - this paying prostitutes for sex thing is obviously a personal one and like WW, I find myself in agreement with both sides of the debate. We all have our own way of doing it and to my mind whatever works for you - works for you.
View all comments by Smiler
I agree with the folks that think you get what you pay for ,if you build up a fun time with the girls you reap the rewards,example ; last night i pop in to rainbow 4 and there is a girl i saw back in Feb when i was here lovely girl ,fun ,sexy,a looker of the best quailty, spent a great couple of days with her in Bangkok and after a trip from Pattaya saw her one more time. She was working in a bar in sol 33 in Feb, but is now in Rainbow 4. So she clocks me last night and was happy as a pig in shit, when i greated her by her name,she was so made up and remembered that i treated her well and we enjoyed the time together, so she decides picks a friend to go with us, i barfine the friend 600 and give her 2000 for short/medium time , and she said she barfined herself after talking to mamasan,if she did or not who cares. she stayed till the morning for another round after a night with both of them,and all she wanted was a cab fare home asking for 100 baht.,me being a true gent gave her 150.. !!
View all comments by Fish
Should be no shock that since things are so bad right now the girls are noticing that the number of visitors are down and those that do come in, for the most part, are not barfining.
I have it on authority from a few reliable sources that the starting quote for shorties is 1500 (set your target for 1000) and an all night tour at 2500. Point being they are competing with each other and see that most farang don’t have the money to toss around they had a few months ago.
View all comments by Bubba