I recently visited Hong Kong and hung out with an affluent Hong Kong friend. I was able to talk to him about the Hong Kong Girl Scene and he was very open about pricing, expectations, etc.
When talking about sex and dating in Asia or in Thailand the English dictionary is deficient. The words which would describe sex and dating in Asia do not have exact and precise counterparts in English.
The typically used Western lexicon– prostitution, P4P (pay for play), gold digger, gigolo, pimp, madam, whore, etc. do not accurately describe the attitudes, values, and activity which occurs throughout Asia including Thailand and the words have a derogatory negative connotation that is not felt by Asian women– specifically Chinese girls.
Specifically, there is no clear dividing line between sex, dating, marriage and money in the minds of most Asian women. Asian women are raised to think of dating and sex within a monetary/financial context and are quite open about it.
When evaluating men to get involved with both physically and/or spiritually and whether to bang them either in a short or long term context how much money the guy has and how much and how likely they are to get paid—with a one-time cash payment, the receipt of fungible gifts, or the general improvement in lifestyle from marriage, financial considerations are inextricably interlinked and intertwined in the minds of Asian women—and men.
Westerners who condemn Asian women including TG’s for mixing banging, marriage and money are trapped inside the constraints of their Western ideology and are not open minded enough to wrap their heads around the reality that Judeo Christian values are not Asian values and Asian chicks are running a different program inside their heads.
Frankly, I like the openness of Asian women on this issue. This honesty stands in stark contrast to the two-faced, hypocritical, disingenuous, politically correct, feminist bullshit that Western women routinely spew. (1)
How often do you encounter shrewish, middle aged, overweight, out of shape, western women with kids and no husband, working a low wage dead end job bad mouthing older affluent men with younger good looking sexy girlfriends and wives and spouting off about how they personally are only “looking for love” —and wanted to gag?
This post is entitled “A Window …” because it is describes hooking up for a subset of Hong Kong men. Just like in Thailand, there are many different ways that different types of guys match with girls to bang. This post describes how one subset, rich Asian guys both single and married, find and match with one type of Hong Kong Girl. My friend is in his late 40’s and is affluent by Hong Kong standards. He is not handsome or in shape. He has enough money to own and maintain a 10 million HK condominium and has a late model Mercedes 600 SL and a full time driver (the current exchange rate is 7.8HK to the USD). He is not married and not interested in getting married.
His methods of finding girls to bang are typical for affluent Hong Kong men—both married and single.
He relies on a loose network of girls who locate and introduce him to likely prospects.
In the West, these girls would be called madams but, as in many cases, there is no English word which accurately describes the role of these women. They have no real counterpart in The West.
Some of these girls are ones he has banged, dated for short periods, or one nighted in the past. Others are girls he has met in the HK club scene, never took much sexual interest in, but they are friends nevertheless.
Most of them are just girls looking to advance themselves or their friends through fucking, dating, or marrying affluent men.
The relationship between this loose network of girls and my friend is an amalgam of business and friendship.
The girls call him and keep tabs on his social plans for the week. He keeps them informed.
Most nights he goes to local restaurants for dinner and maybe to a local bar for drinks. Rather than eating alone he will typically call around his circle of girls and see who is free. When he goes to a bar or disco he will selectively call his “circle of friends” and whomever is interested will come by for some comped drinking and clubbing.
One night I met him at small club in Causeway Bay and we went out drinking and clubbing on subsequent nights.
We went into a compact club in the basement. The club name starts with Vo. but I forgot to make a note of it and we never went back. The back room has three white wooden ponies mounted on poles like an old time carousel at a carnival.
The club has a small front area with a bar, DJ, and dance floor where there is a mixed white/asian crowd, i.e. 99% Asian girls and a mix of white and Asian dudes.
The club has a small back room where “only Asians go”. There is no rule keeping white guys out, they just don’t venture back there often. My friend had a booth with a low coach in the back room where there was a small bar and a small dance floor.
To give you an idea of club pricing in HK, we drank bottles of Moet et Chandon all evening. The waiter brought glasses and a small bowl of chilled cut fruit which was placed into the bottom of the glasses to slightly flavor the champagne. The bottles were 100HK ($125) each. During the course of the evening we went through 8 bottles—all paid for by my friend.
There is probably a minimum charge but most Asian men never have a problem with the minimum charge and the phrase Cheap Charlie is a Caucasian one. I have never seen a problem at mid and upscale clubs with Asian customers trying to beat the minimum.
Four girls arrived.
One of them was an “old friend”. She was in her mid to late twenties and was wearing an odd looking knee length green dress which was very poufy on the bottom. I found out later that it was a Louis Vuiton dress that probably cost a thousand dollars or more because I told my friend it looked kind of stupid and later when we were at the Mall he pointed it out to me in the LV store.
With the “old friend” were four girls. The girls were all between 20 and 25 and dressed attractively.
Hong Kong is a lot richer than Communist China or Thailand so the girls in general dress to a much higher standard and exhibit more class and sophistication. They wear higher end clothing and put together their look in a much more sophisticated way. They have better more sophisticated haircuts and dye jobs, the clothing features better fabrics, and more sophisticated cuts tailored to their particular body, and the colors and textures harmonize. Hong Kong girls are not inherently better looking they just present themselves better.
What is pretty is a matter of taste and, frankly, I do not have Asian tastes. All of the girls were tastefully and elegantly dressed and by Hong Kong standards were pretty but not knockouts. Their looks were comparable to the upper 50% at most upscale Bangkok G-Clubs. (2)
My friend talked with the lead girl and then chatted with the other three. He decided which one he liked, talked to her for about an hour.
The selected girl did her best to entice my friend. This included getting happy from the champagne, letting my friend rub her thighs to within 6 inches of her genitals, dirty dancing him on the dance floor, and some French kissing.
At the end of the evening, my friend was interested in going home with the girl but they couldn’t come to terms. In my friend’s words, the girl was “fishing” him. This means the girl is looking for a longer term and more lucrative arrangement and knows that if she goes home with him for one night she is likely to get a little money now but unlikely to get any more in the future. In Bangkok terms she was longballing not shortballing. (3)
There were no hard feelings about any of this just a business as usual attitude.
Prices are individual and negotiable but the normal range is 2000HK ($259 USD) for LT with girls who go home with guys just for short term sex.
Most of the girls don’t go home just for one night, you have to take them shopping and buy them some fungible gifts before they will go home with you and become your “girlfriend”.
When I asked my friend about what to expect from “girlfriends” acquired in this manner he responded that they “pretty much do whatever you ask of them”—both inside and outside the bedroom. I’ll leave the details of this to your imagination but keep in mind that Asian guys can be pretty perverted sometimes. (4)
When you get bored and are finished with them usually after a month or two a cash payment in addition to the fungible gifts in the neighborhood of 25,000 HK ($3246 USD) is made.
A long term mistress arrangement where the girl is your girlfriend and maintains her own place costs around 25,000 HK ($3246 USD) per month.
The normal arrangement is for the lead girl to get half of the first month’s payment although some girls just do it to help out friends. There might be other secret payments being made when one of the girls finds a big payday but these are discreet and made secretly on the side.
My friend gave each of the four girls 1000 HK ($142) for coming by. The lead girl received nothing.
I talked to my friend about the type of girls he gets introduced to through this arrangement and he says they are mostly girls working in offices at lower paying entry level jobs. Some are girls from communist China who are visiting Hong Kong and looking for a sponsor or sometimes some quick cash and there is a regular group of girls who don’t work and troll the Hong Kong club scene living off sporadic cash infusions from short and medium term banging of affluent guys.
There is a whole potpourri of status among the girls based on where they are from. I will just report these and not comment on it.
The Communist Chinese girls are generally considered less desirable and command lower prices.
Hong Kong girls are generally considered more desirable because they are educated, dress better, and speak Chinese differently.
Beijing girls are desirable because they are taller and whiter but are put down because they are rude, unmannered and talk too loud.
Girls from southern China are generally looked down on because they are short and brown (hmmmm……what does this resemble in Thailand?).
Most of the girls are not interested in meeting white guys, not because they have anything against white guys, but because most white guys are Cheap Charlie’s who balk at giving the girls large chunks of cash and paying the prevailing rate.
I talked to a couple of other affluent Hong Kong Chinese men and they all seemed to participate in this system so it must be pretty ubiquitous.
————————————————————————————————————
notes:
- In Defense of Thai Women Part 1 and 2.
- See discussion of Soprano House, The Resort, and The St. Moritz
- See A User’s Guide to Gullivers
- See The Truth about the Japanese in Bangkok and a note about The Arsenal in the discussion of the Thermae
Enjoyable read and I appreciate your efforts to enlighten.
As someone who has lived in Asia for a long time, and understands the complexities of navigating in Asia and the softer less-spoken about undertones, I think a post like this can possibly steer some of the more naïve people into a wrong understanding. Particularly people who can’t get past their Western perspectives and would view what you describe as just another form of high level whoring.
Yes, situations like this are very much the norm in Asia, but there is also a less capitalistic side to the women as well in the sense that some are not looking for the jackpot, but a man who will care for them, be able to support them, won’t beat them, doesn’t drink too much or gamble and will generally come home 6 nights out of 7.
Of course a post about that variety of women to the degree that you have written here would not be as dramatic to read, but it is none the less another large dimension of sex and relationships in Asia.
What might be interesting to explore though along with the comparisons between the values of Asian and Western women is the fact that possibly 7 or 8 out of 10 Asian women would be willing to either, openly or quietly, accept some infidelity in the relationship on the part of the man. That is assuming he keeps his activates outside of the home, does not do it in any way which would cause the woman to lose face, and remains to be a stable and a financial supporting who cares for her and the family.
I was recently have a conversation with a girl like the type you describe about a boyfriend of hers who one night shut his phone off and did not come home. She knew obviously what he was doing after heading out with some of his male friends and I asked her if it bothered her. She said what bothered her was the fact that he turned off his phone and that she could not reach him rather than the fact he was shed some of his body fluids somewhere else for a change.
In hopes of giving her a better understanding of what might have happened, I explained that possibly he was with another girl who he had told he was single in hopes of bettering his chance for some sex at the end of the night and that a call from her would have possibly comprised that situation. She accepted that as a plausible reason, but still felt slighted when she was sacrificed and not able to reach him when she wanted to.
So as a means of soothing her anger in her moment of tenseness, I simply turned out the light and threw her another one. It seemed to work…
View all comments by Cheapolay
Cheapolay,
Your comment was very insightful and
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
In The World, I have seen many white men get what is referred to as “Yellow Fever” the first time they date an Asian woman after a lifetime of dating Caucasians.
After discovering the characteristics you describe, so different from everyday white women, they get so enamored they never go back to white women.
I also know a fair number of Asian women in The World who have a similar reaction to white men.
After dating a white man, they find the expectation of fidelity and the willingness to take direction from their woman refreshing after dating traditional Asian men.
After discovering white men, they get so enamored they never go back to Asian men.
I also agree wholeheartedly with the idea that many westerners get the mistaken idea that what is commonplace among Asian women is equivalent to a “form of high level whoring.”
I wrote this awhile ago and I still thing it is true:
“Furthermore, what is going on between farangs and TG’s is much richer, varied, complicated, and IMHO a lot more legitimate and a hell of a lot more fun and entertaining than commonly bandied phrases “Sex Trade” and “Sex Tourists” capture or encompass.
IMHO, the term “Girls Scene” more accurately and precisely describes what goes on in Thailand.
Thailand is unique because there is a long standing well organized active dating and marriage market between farangs and TG’s. Given the income disparities between potential partners, the market could not continue to operate unless the poorer party had some way of funding their end of the enterprise. Because Thailand is a poor country the only readily available source of money is to get it directly or indirectly from the richer party, i.e. the farang.”
comment link
Of course a lot of the farangs patronizing Soi Cowboy, Nana, and Patpong are just short timing, but once you start hanging out with the long ballers and everyday Thai women, “simple whoring” does not accurately describe what happens. In fact, I don’t think there are precise English words to describe what is going on because what goes on in Asia and specifically Thailand doesn’t go on in The World.
This is one area I disagree with Stickman (or whomever is writing his column these days).
Recently he writes
“In the early days especially, but still to some degree today, this site has been known as a resource for Western guys not just messing around with Thai ladies of the night, but actually entering into the longest of relationships with them, marriage.
From the very beginning I have been a campaigner against guys marrying bargirls. In the old days I wrote screeds of nonsense about the whole deal and gave a myriad of reasons why it shouldn’t and more often than not, doesn’t work. I did try to be measured and said that to really understand the issue we would need to observe a number of such relationships over time and see how they developed. I can honestly say now that the initial hypothesis was spot on. Very, very few relationships between Western guys and bargirls work. In fact most don’t just end in break up, they end in disaster. Perhaps this will make for an interesting column opening piece, highlighting some of the disasters that have unfolded over the years.
Without wanting to say I told you so, the advice still remains. Bargirls are for a good time, not a long time.”
http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickMarkII/TheDangersOfDrugSmugglingInThailand.htm
Maybe it is because Stickman was/is married and never dates Thai women anymore and most of his data is from guys who write him after they have had an unsatisfactory experience, but I think dating Asian, specifically TG’s, is not as hopeless and destined for failure as he writes.
Personally, if I had a choice between a standard issue run of the mill TG or other Asian woman and a white women, the choice would not even be close—give me the TG every time.
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
BBK - nice insight into the HK scene although heavily slanted towards the more affluent folks.
Not many “honkys” can afford to drop 10k HKD/nite. Various other scenes exist to accommodate the less affluent folks - the 141 girls, the various MPs, KTV bars, hostess bars aka nightclubs, after school uni freelancers, hotel reservation girls, and various 200 HKD knockshops littered throughout Mong Kok and the likes.
You also forgot to mention the Taiwanese girls that are highly desirable for their model height and delicate features. The language factor also comes into play with girls from the other China regions. Folks in Hong Kong speak Cantonese which the native Mandarin speakers from the rest of China have difficulty speaking/understanding.
View all comments by anon
with all due respect, anyone who refer to the HongKong people as speaking Chinese differently instead of describing it as different dialects, with HongKong being Cantonese speaker and most Mainland girls being Mandarin speakers are not entitled to be taken seriously. add this to the fact that the poster wrote like a naive, dumb, wide-eyed, 18-year-old who have just being exposed to the culture of Asian sexual relationship, never quite getting it right, the article is as good as the tabloid press in HongKong. 90percent sensationalist crap, 10percent fact. The so-called sexual arrangement described is not the norm in HongKong. It is simply the way the rich and upper class play.
View all comments by Chaiyen
bkk - thanks for the post and follow up comments. I think it is an interesting discussion. Having lived in HK for about 5 years I never saw this action but heard of it and knew of some big finance guys playing in it.
For me I never bothered. Got plenty of indo tail for mostly free cause they wanted to have a good time. HK girls did nothing for me. About the only chinese girls who do are the Taiwanese. Some super hotties in Taipei. My friend pulled a normal girl in the Grand Hyatt one night. Sure we were spending some coin and buying nice bubbly but the girls were not working girls.
Over breakfast he told me that when they went up to the room the girl asked to go to the bathroom to freshen up. My friend speaks fluent Mandarin so this was always his ace in the hole. I will always stand by the notion that learning the lingo gets u a lot of puss. Anyway the girl comes out in a nurses outfit and my buddy was floored. Thought she was into something kinky. She told him to chill that she really was a nurse and thought he would enjoy the outfit.
cheapo - your point about the shagging around but discreetly is the key. There is a Girly Berry song, the new ambassadors of Saongkran approved clothing, that talks about a guy being out with his Gik and not answering his phone when his girl calls. Then when he does basically telling the gik to shut up. Both the girls I am with assume the gik thing happens but both agree that there is a better way of dealing with it.
U must love this attitude. I have another story similar to this I may use in a post but the point is the Thai girls are pretty amazing in their capacity to deal with it all.
View all comments by smitty
Yes, and we all know Girly Berry songs, in their own introspective and thoughtful way, are snippets of how the world really works here in BKK….
For an even deeper understanding of Thai culture, may I suggest a ballad by either Four Mod or Neko Jump…
for example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnX0C_OXrYc
View all comments by Mr. Kotter
“Hong Kong is a lot richer than Communist China or Thailand so the girls in general dress to a much higher standard and exhibit more class and sophistication.”
Having dated HK girls, that’s a laugh. And especially when you consider their violent, vulgar (we think) phlegm in back of throat movements when they’re in the bathroom. Huge turnoff. That’s just one annoying thing. But overall in general, of course we find Thais more ‘proper’ as regards customs.
Rest of it isn’t any surprise at all. The prices are all relative vis-à-vis economies and cost of living and in fact I think the champagne prices are rather cheap at $125/bottle vs what I had to pay in any London or European city nightclub.
View all comments by Jaejo
Cheapolay knows what he’s talking about. He should take over for Stick, who I rarely agree with.
I’ve been married to a Thai for over 20 years. We have gotten very comfortable with each other and she knows my needs. I’m ‘allowed’ a few indiscretions, although it’s a unspoken agreement.
Basically, don’t embarrass her and everything is cool.
View all comments by bo
Thank you Bo. Although I don’t rate the Stick site very high, and have never really read the site to begin with, I will take it as a complement any way.
Sounds like you have a great thing going there and that you do things in a smart way, which is great. No damage done and possibly the longevity of the relationship gains something by you taking the edge off when you feel you need to. As long as your wife is never embarrassed or compromised by your activities within her sphere of social influence and thus, it never affects her social standing, then there is no real concern for her other than the risk of you picking up a nasty little bug along the way.
View all comments by Cheapolay
@bo - sounds like the same agreement my landlord has. old german guy in his 60s married to his thai wife for over 20 years. he goes out to the bars and discos at least 3 nites/week. the wife doesn’t care as long as he doesn’t bring them back to the house.
@smitty - bet you hooked up a lot in wanchai? the indos and filipino girls working as DH are just begging for action!
agree with you about the hotties in taipei. a lot of models in the clubs there. $20 for open bar all nite long at some of the clubs too.
View all comments by anon
Yup - the man is spot-on; whilst I might not like his tone, I have been working HK market for 15 years and this is 100% how it plays. BTW, as anyone who knows me knows, I am no gweilo, only 50% 55555
View all comments by martin99z
You know you can cheat on westren women to if you just dont tell them?!?
I think guys who like guys that like the doormat/ recepticle role of asian women are losers.And cleary no westren women would have them so they come to asian where the women are second class citizens.
View all comments by yesman
“I think guys who like doormat/ recepticle role of asian women are losers.”
Thats what i meant
View all comments by yesman
“Specifically, there is no clear dividing line between sex, dating, marriage and money in the minds of most Asian women. Asian women are raised to think of dating and sex within a monetary/financial context and are quite open about it.”
BBK good reading, I was wondering if this is really about Asian women or is it just about poor countries. Does this apply to South Korea? I think it’s similar in places like eastern European.
I understand there looking for a good provider but western womem do this too. As you said they aren’t open about it they down right deny it.
“The typically used Western lexicon– prostitution, P4P (pay for play), gold digger, gigolo, pimp, madam, whore, etc. do not accurately describe the attitudes, values, and activity which occurs throughout Asia including Thailand and the words have a derogatory negative connotation that is not felt by Asian women– specifically Chinese girls.”
I can’t comment on Chinese girls but from the Thai girls that I have been with they seem to have the same perspective about themselves (even if us living in Thailand don’t) as we do of them in the west.
View all comments by Young Royal
Yesman,
You are not giving Asian women enough credit.
They are not just dumb submissive dogs, guys can physically and mentally abuse and take advantage of for sex.
In the military they have an acronym—SA which stands for Situational Awareness. SA is when you are watching, aware, and evaluating everything going on around you. You are not target fixating on only what is front of you.
I give most Asian women credit for the intelligence, open mindedness, and flexibility of thought to have excellent SA and act accordingly when it comes to separating and seeing the difference between sex, love and assigning and accepting their own role and responsibility.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/02/senators.husband/
http://www.ghsrenal.com/ghsfiles/images/Stabenow07.jpg
Check out this picture and news story.
Is it really so surprising that this guy wants to bang someone other than his wife?
Should the wife be that surprised that her husband is hard up for action?
Does she recognize and accept that maybe she bears some responsibility that her husband visits prostitutes?
Does she realize that The World faces a guy like this with some pretty stark choices when it comes to banging?
IMHO, the Asian women Cheapolay is talking about are a lot smarter, open minded, and pragmatic than most women in The World who blame everything and anything and everybody but themselves when their husband expresses an interest in banging someone other than their wife.
IMHO, Asian society is a lot more rational and nurturing of the male human spirit than The World.
Like I said in an earlier response,
“Personally, if I had a choice between a standard issue run of the mill TG or other Asian woman and a white women, the choice would not even be close—give me the TG every time.”
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
I will take the time to express myself properley here because this topic is one of the reasons i cant stand most farangs I meet in Thailand.
“Is it really so surprising that this guy wants to bang someone other than his wife?
Should the wife be that surprised that her husband is hard up for action?
Does she recognize and accept that maybe she bears some responsibility that her husband visits prostitutes?”
My believe is that most farangs come to thailand to behave like Thai men.{minis hitting her} And what you just said reinforced that.
So BBK are you saying that it is ok to cheat on your wife if she puts on some wieght after a pregnency? I think it is wroung. Or if her looks go naturaly as she ages. It is one thing to be alittle upset if your wife or girlfriend lets herself go while you keep a steady gym routine. But if we are talking about a marryied guy banging a prostitue then I could assume he is past his prime aswell.Discression is the other reason to bang a prosititue.
In a third world country like Thailand a women may not have much choice but to allow her boyfriend or husband to butterfly because he cares for her finically. And if she were to break up if him over this she would be out on her ass so to speak. If she has little education and limited job prospects then she would be gambling on the chance she could meet a nice guy that wouldnt cheat on her and could also care for her finacally. I think this point of view from the women is ignored.
Your average westren women has a much higher sence of self worth and is not so dependent finically on her man, and as a result most would not tolerate the guy fucking around on them.
And in aisa if the guy gets old and less attractive is the girl allowed to cheat? How many Thai men or farangs that cheat on there Thai wives equally agree that the girl should be allowed to have her indescressions as well?
I dont believe we are talking about an open relationship here. These work for some westren couples so long as the set rules are followed.
What we are talking about is a women that should do everything that a good girlfriend or wife should do but she has no right or reason to expect the same from her man because in a culture where women are second class she does not have such rights. This is misogymy, a practice in the haterd of women.
I hate this and it drives me that a westren born man would not see the wroung in it.
My longest comment ever.
View all comments by yesman
Good points Yesman, could it just be a case of the Lion and his Pride. Basically nature instead of something more sinister?
View all comments by Young Royal
yes - take a breath buddy. your longest comment just continue to prove how u want to bend wester rules around asian lifestyles. You act like, right or wrong, only western guys are doing this.
My friend has a gf who talks about her mom driver her husband to the massage parlor once he got to old to drive.
Go into any small town a visit a thai karaoke. Go upstairs and see the shagging cubicles frequented by married thai men.
so you don’t like it. okay fine but quite pretending it is the western mans’s invention in thailand.
my girl like that I bang the other girl in front of her. how’s that for an open relationship. sometimes I have to pry her off the girl first but such is life.
View all comments by smitty
@Smitty
Now, I know I shouldn’t say this but…. I do believe (one drunken Sunday) that I had to PRY you and your lovely lady off another (not so much a lady)girl performing a lesbo act.
- You could have at least waited for her to finish rug munching.
’such is life’!!
View all comments by Daywalker
Yesman,
You do not give Asian women enough credit and have not wrapped your head around the idea that Judeo Christian values about sex, marriage, and fidelity are not Asian values by and large.
Among the middle and upper class Asians from a grab bag of Asian countries, the men and the women commonly find sex outside their marriage—and it is accepted and not that big of a deal.
In traditional Chinese marriages, after the number one wife gave birth to children, a younger number two wife was brought in specifically to provide sex because the number one wife either wasn’t interested in it anymore or the husband wasn’t interested in her. These secondary wives had differential legal rights upon divorce and the death of the husband.
If you read the James Clavell novels about Japan, there is a sub plot about this practice.
Today, these attitudes and practices carry over into modern Chinese marriages.
Many of the married middle and upper class Chinese women I know have a “boyfriend” who they bang. The ones where there is enough money typically maintain a second house where they live separate from their husbands. There husband probably have “girlfriends” who they bang and support.
It is all copacetic as long as face is maintained and the practice is considered normal. In fact, the existence of secondary sex partners is considered conducive to a healthy long term marriage or relationship.
The sense of moral outrage and betrayal that accompanies such activity in The World and are not part of Asian values.
I don’t have much personal experience with married middle and upper class Thai’s but it wouldn’t surprise me if attitudes and practices are the same in Thailand as the rest of Asia.
You can read my recent post about Hong Kong and I recently submitted a post about the Shanghai Reverse Hostess Clubs.
What is described in these posts is part and parcel of what I am talking about.
IMHO, the extra-marital banging is socially acceptable and is as prevalent among the women as the men.
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
NO… extra-marital banging among Chinese women IS NOT SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE.. MEN. YES. WOMEN. NO. The face maintained is correct but is mostly applicable to only men. for women, unless she is a powerful and influential figure in a family or a business, she will be met with open scorn. Chinese society find infidelity among men more acceptable than women. In fact, it is the desire of Chinese women to adopt Western liberal lifestyle that is slowly changing this but you are stating that that it has always been part of Chinese culture.
language edited. grow up chaiyen or use some more sweetener.
or write your own reader submisson. but don’t bitch.
View all comments by Chaiyen
Didn’t King Rama IV start the extra marital banging with his extensive harem of 200+ women? Of course this was back in the 1800s when death rates amongst the children were high and he just wanted to ensure a proper lineage in the royal family.
I think this is the example that a lot of Thai males take their cue from.
“The King did it before, so it must be okay!”
View all comments by anon
Chaiyen,
Maybe I wasn’t precise enough in my language.
It is almost universal among the upper class Chinese woman I know that they engage in extra marital banging.
Granted this is not a large sample so maybe I am wrong.
It is true as you mention that these friends all run small, medium, or large businesses that are successful so they have an independent source of income.
It is also the case that they all married young to an older guy their families either choose or approved of.
I also know a fair number of married middle class Chinese woman who have some sort of “situation.”
The most common is their husband has gone off to America for economic reasons and had to leave the wife and kids behind. All of these Chinese woman I know bang extra maritally.
In all these cases, the women have access to money.
In different situations or when there is no money, what you say might be correct.
BigBabyKenny
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
Ughh….Bkk you missed my point completely.
And just for the record I almost married a Thai, she was a femenist and not typeof girl that fits any streotype of what a proper thai chick should be.
I dont know anything about china so I wont comment on it.
Bkk and smitty you both said that I am bringing my westren ideas on relationships to asia. That is not what I was trying to say. What I was trying to do, was relate how the “man is king” thai culture,and poverity. Ups what a Tgwill torlerate in a relationship
Question.1 Anyone disagree that Thai women are subsevrevent to men in Thai cuture? Question 1B.. If you do agree that women are subservent in thai culture, do you think it is right?
Question 2. If A Thai women allows some infadilty because she believes it is part of a healthy relasioship.
Then why do they stay with men that abuse them physically?
This is unacceptable in my country.If A thai girl understands men better then a westren women, then there must be some reason that they accept physical abuse and the clueless western women do not.??
So why do thai women stay with men that abuse them phyically?
Question3.
If a Thai lady does have a problem with ger husbands butterflying what are her practical atternatives? Does she leave her provider? If she has a kid then she is used goods with an added expense attached.Limited her chance of bagging a decent guy.
Question3. Is a Thai lady allowed to chaet on her husband in the same way a man is? Are there scores of brothels with young thai guys to service this women and I dont know about it.
question 3B.. If it is not acceptable for thai women to sleep with other men. Why cant they?
Question3C If you believe that thai girls are not allowed culturely to have other men. do you believe thast that is right?
I doubt anyone will ansewer these but I will put anyone who does on the stand and cross examine them.
@ smitty I wasnt saying that western men come to thailnd to intenionally behave like the locals but they do it none the less.
And what could I learn exaclty from going into an other thai brothel…?
What you discribed souned like an open relationship with a bi girl, not an uncommen setup in the west. To each his own.
My beleive is that the extra maritail banging is the mans intentive, he does it without her permission and if she dosent like it he surley wont stop.
I would wright more but i dont get paid for ranting online.
And avoid telling yourself what you want to hear.
View all comments by yesman
what the woman practise in their private life, without the open knowledge of friends and relatives ARE NOT THE SAME as the practise being socially acceptable. being socially acceptable means they do that openly without shame or fear of scorn by others. which part of this does you not understand? I AM CORRECT.. NOT MAYBE. I AM CHINESE IN A CHINESE-DOMINATED COUNTRY. what you are saying about the financial situation of the women being a huge factor in determining their tendencies to seek “external pleasure” is correct but that is what they wanted to do in secrecy without open knowledge of others. how could you qualify that as socially acceptable?
View all comments by Chaiyen
@yesman: I’ll take this one if I may.
Yes, they are subservient, at least compared to your average Western woman, and yes I think it’s great.
Same reason Western women do. One of life’s little mysteries. I’ve met far more battered women who stay with abusive partners in the West than I have in Thailand, but perhaps I’m not looking in the right places.
Domestic violence is clearly a Bad Thing (as well as a separate topic, IMHO), but it doesn’t only happen in Thailand.
I think you just stumbled across a good point. You answered your own question there, really. Discreet affairs are the way forward.
I thought we just had question 3? Oh well.
Yes, there are several ‘brothels’, bars and clubs with young Thai guys to service these women. I think we’ve discussed them here before.
Who said it wasn’t acceptable?
I’m on record as having banged several TGs while they’ve been having telephone conversations with their sponsors or other boyfriends. They pay, I play. Fine by me.
I don’t speak for BBK, and can’t comment on the original piece, but some of your questions reveal rather more about you than they do about Thailand.
View all comments by TAFKABBB
A woman looks for a good provider and a man wants to spread his seed around. It’s as simple as that.
View all comments by hanuman
Well TAFKABBB( DOES THAT STAND FOR SOMETHING?}I was hoping someone else would take a stab at it.
I dont know why anyone would like a subservent girlfriend, it nice but it just gets annoying in the long term. I have a limit on how many times a thai girl can say “up to you” before she gets the boot.
About the abuse.. you are from england? cant talk about your friends back home, I guess battered and getting the odd slap for supper not being ready on time are twoifferent things.
You cant say that the brothels are on nearly the samr scale… seems weird giving that women are half the population.
my point was that we are not talking about an open relaionship between consenting adults, which is fine.
“I’m on record as having banged several TGs while they’ve been having telephone conversations with their sponsors or other boyfriends. They pay, I play. Fine by me.”
Me too,stupid pricks. Funny I gathered very soon aftet meeting such girls that they were sluts. How dumb are these guys to miss that?
View all comments by yesman
yesman: TAFKABBB stands for “The Artist Formerly Known As Bangkok Bad Boy”
TAFKABB: “I doubt anyone will ansewer these but I will put anyone who does on the stand and cross examine them.”
Do you feel cross-examined?
View all comments by werewolf
TAFKABB: The next time I am on the phone to my girlfriend, would you mind keeping your grunts and moans a little quieter. I can hardly hear her.
View all comments by Daywalker
@hanuman: You got it.
@yesman: You keep changing the focus every time somebody corrects you, and I’m not sure whether you even have a point any more, let alone what it might be.
Like you, I don’t want a subservient girlfriend, or any girlfriend at all for that matter. Been single more or less since I got here, and (obviously) rather enjoying it.
Women return to abusive partners all over the world, but yes I’m partly English. Plenty of battered wives in other countries too though, not sure what your point is here either. I don’t believe the statistics in the UK are unusually high or anything. Perhaps you have some facts and figures for us? That would be a first.
Do you have an agenda here? You seem to be wildly off-message given the usual content of the site.
@werewolf: About as much as when I’m asked what I want to drink, or whether I want “two lady” in the SoL.
@Daywalker: Sorry, her phone was on hands-free for reasons probably best not discussed…
View all comments by TAFKABBB
She was eating a Chip Butty?
View all comments by Daywalker
I tend to agree with Chaiyen’s comments, though it seems that his phrasing may have got a few heckles up.
What is described above is a pretty unrepresentative sample of your average Hongkonger. But of course, there is a significant wealthy ‘elite’. I use this term loosely as it has no basis in anything other than their money.
Many Hong Kong guys do have mistresses in Shenzhen or Dongguan however. I guess this is a lifestyle-of-the-rich-&-famous-on-the-cheap. Similar to our own rock star lives in Bangkok.
I don’t agree that Hong Kong women present themselves well at all. Mostly they are fashion disasters. Brands win over style almost every time. They do dress better than the mainland girls however.
On the whole they are quite an immature & sexually conservative bunch too, with a high proportion marrying childhood sweethearts. A lot display unhealthy obsessions with gonks, cartoon characters, and a horribly affected ‘cuteness’. Just witness the semi-spastic knocked kneed pigeon toed walks you’ll see everywhere. And if you spend any time in the city you’re guaranteed to see more than a few tearful, childish footstomping tantrums from women to their geeky boyfriends in the street. The answer of course is for the guy to give money.
The good news for the westerner is that there ARE plenty of girls who do not fit this stereotype, enjoy the company of gweilos, and go to the right parts of town to find them. This salary paying nonsense is nowhere near any of thes girls agenda, though they are often happy to play the field and enjoy being treated to nights out. Plenty of overseas Chinese returnees too, who for me are often a great compromise.
View all comments by Combover