As a professional poker player, seeing the world through another person’s eyes comes easily. In poker, the good players hold over the poor players, excellent players hold over merely good players, and world class players hold over excellent players with the ability to put oneself inside the other player’s head, understand what he is thinking, why he is doing what he is doing, and what he is trying to achieve. Players who do this, can select and implement proper counter strategies and take the money over time.
For me, seeing the world from another person’s point of view also pays away from the poker table. I find the world, specifically my time in Thailand, much richer, interesting, and entertaining when seen not only from my own but from other’s point of view.
When hanging with Thai girls, seeing the world through their eyes is useful, educational, humorous, and enlightening and I frequently empathize with them.
What is it like being a girl in Thailand? What tools and raw materials does a particular girl have to work with and whatopportunities does Thai society and a girl’s place in it make available? (1)
What are the safe investments?—where resources expended will bring a modest guaranteed return.
Where are the good gambles?—where a young Thai girl can play the cards she has been dealt, find some decent leverage and bet her limited resources with a reasonable expectation of a good payday.
What long shots are available—where everything can be cast on one roll of the dice and a fortune can be won by the lucky.
What are the sucker bets?—where a young Thai girls dissipates her resources and ends up old, dried up, destitute, and played out. (2)
When I see a Thai girl/woman a little farther on in years and in a bad situation, I can’t help but wonder whether she ended up down and out because she gambled well and got unlucky, she was too timid to ever take a risk, her life is in the shitter because she profligately expended what she had , or maybe she started out so low only a miracle would produce a decent life —and no miracle was forthcoming. (3)
Sometimes I have the pleasure and privilege to meet (and usually bang!) a Thai girl who has scoped the world, marshaled her resources, placed her bets intelligently and prudently and is waiting to see how the cards will fall, I can’t help but root for Lady Luck to smile in her direction. My admiration goes out to TG’s who play The Game of Life—The Thai Version with skill and panache—win or lose. (4)
Thailand for girls, especially the middle and lower class girls farangs normally meet, is not like The World—where everyone but the worst fuck ups have the certainty of a decent life and a comfortable standard of living.
Make no mistake, young Thai girls play a desperate game for high stakes where failure comes with disastrous consequences.
Most of these girls deal with their limited financial resources, limited skill sets, and limited opportunities with more grace, good humor, and dare I say it, more class than people in far better situations in The World.
Which brings me to the point of this essay.
It really gripes me when moralistic self righteous farangs look down their noses at TG’s who are “working” or who have chosen to pursue short or long term relationships with farangs.
It is oh so easy for someone to bring an alien morality to a country with a different culture and beliefs and stand in judgment on the choices and lives of those with different beliefs and values.
It also gripes me, but only a little less, when privileged Hi Soi Thais lord it over their less fortunate sisters and pronounce judgment on TG’s facing a limited range of choices.
It is oh so easy for someone born with money and choices, as any person in The World is when compared to most TG’s, to judge the choices and lives of people who never had the advantages, money, or options they had.
It is also easy for wannabe journalists to cop out with me-too politically correct newspaper articles portraying TG’s as desperate down and out losers and drug addicts forced into working for a living by extreme poverty or white slavers instead of looking a little bit deeper, checking your facts, trying to see The World from another person’s point of view and telling it like it is—-rather than the way some feminist handbook written tens of thousands of miles away by a person who has never been to SE Asia says it should be.
To give you an idea where most TG’s are coming from consider the following.
- Only a ninth grade education is provided free in Thailand.
- Thai companies are male dominated and rarely promote women into the upper levels of management. Educated Thai women working at large companies at best become middle managers in the support areas of a company and rarely have a role in the strategic decision making or upper management functions.
- Because the Thai government and the Thai police are corrupt, entrepreneurial opportunities are proscribed. Whenever a small business is profitable the Thai police will show up and insist on a bribe for the business to continue. Of course, the size of the bribe will be proportional to the perceived profits making it difficult or impossible for a small businessman to earn much money.
- Thailand is a class society where who your father is determines who you are and police and government corruption make sure you never rise much above your roots—no matter how talented or how hard you work. It is no coincidence that Thaskin, a man who made a lot of money, started out his life as a policeman and graduated to politics.
- Thailand is a matriarchal society where parents wield effective authority over their children throughout their lives. One effect of this is that women from a lower social class almost never marry up into a higher social class. Unlike The World where men frequently marry women whom their parents disapprove of, Thai men almost never marry a girl without their parent’s approval and Thai parents never bless their son marrying a girl from a lower socio-economic class.
- Thailand is a poor country and in most Thai households limited resources are directed toward the men. Rarely is there sufficient income to invest in the girls. (5)
For most TG’s, their only assets are their innate intelligence, youth, and looks and the only realistic opportunity to upgrade their lives is to marry or boyfriend a farang.
In Thai society, the arena where a TG’s assets have by far the most value is the farang dating scene.
Marrying or boyfriending a farang not only provides by far the best chance for a better life than her parents had, the best opportunity for having children she can actually live with and raise but also provides the only chance for a TG to liberate herself from the class prison Thai society has sentenced her to.
Grasping this point generates some insights into Thailand for farangs.
First, many of the girls you meet around Sukhumvit, especially the freelancers are not the dregs of Thai society as internet accounts and the foreign press would lead you to believe. The TG’s inhabiting farangland are not the lowest of the low forced into selling their bodies for money because they have no alternative. A good portion are exactly the opposite. The TG’s hanging around Sukhumvit pursuing farangs are frequently the cream of Thai womanhood who have voluntarily and without coercion chosen and embraced farang dating.
International immigration self selects for intelligence, entrepreneurial spirit, and creative thinking. Those who choose to uproot themselves from their home country and risk everything by migrating to a foreign country to seek a better life are the creative, intelligent, entrepreneurial risk takers. In third world countries, the best and brightest leave and the dullards stay at home slogging it out against impossible odds.
The same dynamic applies to internal immigration, i.e. TG’s forsaking Thai society and entering the farang dating milieu.
Realistically, a girl has to have superior looks to date farangs so many of the TG’s hanging around farangland aka Sukhumvit are the girls with intelligence, imagination, and ambition, who also happened to be graced with killer bods and sweet angelic faces.
Is it any wonder that many farangs coming to Thailand for holiday are wowed by their exposure to Thai women and eventually become TG addicted? Or that many farangs eventually and happily enter long term relationships with TG’s and find long term satisfaction?
Farangs in Thailand find Thai women so appealing not because the average Thai girl is so great but because the Thai women they meet represent a selective elite subset of Thai girls.
Imagine visiting Amercia and spending 100% of your time at high end fashion shows in NYC and somehow the models were convinced you were a movie director who could jump start their acting career —launching them on the upward path to fame and fortune.
If runway supermodels were the only American women you meet and they all viewed you this way wouldn’t you end up thinking American women are the best looking and nicest in the world—instead of the overweight buffalo sized ball and chains they have actually become?
Second, the internet is filled with sad sack accounts by farang men bamboozled and/or bewitched by TG’s.
On the surface, it seems pretty odd that very young girls, with limited world experience and no education seem to consistently outsmart older more experienced more worldly men and are frequently able to persuade these same men to voluntarily and happily part with ridiculous sums of money (at least from the TG’s point of view) or enter into relationships that are highly advantageous to them–but when you think deeper it makes sense.
The men who settle in Thailand are not the best and the brightest from their countries. In fact, many men relocate to Thailand because their socio-economic performance back home was anything but stellar.
On the other side of the table, the TG’s in farangland are above average in intelligence, unencumbered by politically correct western morality about their sexuality, experienced dealing with, pleasing, and manipulating men, and consequently wield their beauty and youth with the deftness of a brain surgeon cutting with his scalpel and the deadliness of a ninja assassin slicing and dicing with his killer blades.
Is it any mystery, why at the end of the night the TG frequently goes home with the money and the smile on her face and the sad sacked farang is left with empty pockets?
Or that the outcome is some type of short term exchange or long term relationship that leaves both parties better off but is highly advantageous for the TG?
Or that we frequently read accounts on the internet about TG’s getting the better of farangs but far fewer accounts of farangs besting TG’s?
I’ll admit that whenever I have the privilege of watching The Game being played between a wily TG and a farang, I usually root for the TG. Nothing is funnier and it never gets old, watching a smug well fed, self important, full of himself farang who blathers incessantly about how backward Thai society is, how stupid Thai people are, how Thai business could be run better, blah blah blah blah getting blind sided and bested by a young hot TG—-and then complaining afterwards about how they were cheated, the girl was dishonest, blah blah blah blah and expecting and frequently getting sympathy from fellow full of themselves farangs with similar experiences. I admittedly find it difficulty to keep a straight face when one of these sad sack clubs has a meeting to share horror stories.
It never seems to occur to them and, admittedly I never speak up, that it was pretty stupid from the outset to play a game against superior competition and then even more ridiculous to get mad or expect sympathy when they come out loser.
In the poker world, these guys are called Hometown Heroes. A Hometown Hero is a player from an area without organized poker or at best a small casino that spreads only a few games at low limits. The hometown hero is the best player in his home game and good enough to beat the low limit casino games in his hometown and fancies himself a world class player.
Hometown Heroes frequently give up their job and move to the bigger games of Los Angeles or Las Vegas full of hubris and with star filled eyes. When Hometown Heroes arrive in L.A. or L.V. and play in the bigger games, instead of being the best player in the game, they are now the worst. In bigger games against better players, the simple strategies and ploys which worked at home against weak competition are ineffective and deftly exploited by the more knowledgeable experienced pros.
Not only do Hometown Heroes start off losing, it is almost impossible for them to turn things around. How can you counter a strategy being used against you when you do not even know what that strategy is or why it works? Unless someone takes pity and the Hometown Hero gets some help from better players, it is almost impossible for the Hometown Hero to become an everyday winner. Hometown Heroes inevitably usually lose their bankrolls and return home busted. (6)
Many farangs in Thailand are Hometown Heroes. Back in The World, they are not good looking enough, charming enough, or rich enough to attract the attention of the best looking smartest women. When they get to Thailand just like the Hometown Hero who finds himself out of his league in a game against better players, the farang finds himself targeted by super smart super hotties—-a class of women who never give them the time of day back in The World and which they are entirely unprepared to deal with.
Is it rocket science predicting who will emerge winner in this contest?
And just like the busted poker Hometown Heroes who blame their fate on cheating, collusion among the players, and just plain bad luck, the farang Hometown Heroes who play and lose The Game with TG’s place the blame on anyone and everything for their fate—–except where it really belongs, squarely on their own shoulders.
Footnotes:
- The classic Robert Frost poem The Road Not Taken captures this well. Google it if you are interested.
- I met a TG in Nana Parking Lot last January who fit this category. She was 20, spoke excellent English (which she had learned from a previous farang BF) and, in the post Bang conversation, admitted she was a Tweaker (L.A. slang for a Yaba user). My guess is she was in the early stages of her addiction because she had none of the physical signs of a long time addict. She confessed she would take Yabaa and then go without sleep for 3 or 4 days, crash, and spend the next 3 or 4 days recovering before her next episode. Surprisingly, she was a fun companion both in bed and as a clubbing date. I lost contact with her after her cell phone number changed so I don’t know how what eventually happened to her.
- These are the girls you see strung along Sukhumvit at 4AM who for whatever reason are unable to work in a bar, gogo, or even go the Biergarten.
- Hanging with the Japanese specialists who frequent the Thermae this summer, I met two girls who fit this description. Both were in their teens and making some real money (at least to them) for the first time—they had both been working in BKK for about a year. Both girls, had saved their money and decided to invest in Japanese language classes at a language school in Siam Square with the intention of marrying a Japanese guy someday. These classes are not cheap, especially given their incomes, and constituted a major investment for them. Both had scoped the farang dating scene, decided dating and hopefully marrying a Japanese Guy was their best choice, marshaled the resources, and “placed their bets.”
- Thailand is a poor country. How poor? Consider the following numbers.
- When you watch poker on TV have you ever noticed that most of the young successful female players are inevitably good looking. This is because in most cases the way they learned to play was to befriend or date a successful player who schooled them. Mimi Tran, Meg Tilly, and more recently Maria Ho are examples of this.
Thailand 2005:
Per Capita GDP = $ 2,720.00 (THB 93,198.08)
Monthly = $ 226.67 (THB 7,766.62)
USA 2005:
Per Capita GDP = $ 43,560 (THB 1,492,539.84)
Monthly = $ 3,600.00 (THB 123,350.4)
A better picture can be had by looking at household income in Bangkok and in the rest of Thailand.
Household Disposable Income (Monthly):
Bangkok 2002:
Yearly = $ 9,710.82 (THB 332,731.54)
Monthly = $ 809.24 (THB 27,727.80)
Thailand 2002:
Yearly = $ 4,735.76 (THB 162,266.08)
Monthly = $ 394.65 (THB 13,522.29)
Nice piece, and spot on especially regarding the Farangs who come here and their opportunities to meet some outstanding women. However, the “the cream of Thai womanhood” is not anywhere near lower Sukhumvit! Instead, they have day jobs, are usually middle class and from Bangkok, and have relatively stable family lives. There are many out there and if they’re too smart, they remain single, as Thai men won’t want a woman who’s perceived to be smarter than him - no matter how hot she may be.
View all comments by kallah
I enjoyed this essay and its several thought provoking points. Also, the footnotes at the end were helpful.
As a high school exchange student to Thailand in the early 1980’s, I lived with four Sino-Thai families over the course of the year. Each family essentially had their own business/company and were very entrepreneurial. What I found interesting was that even though the patriarch got all the credit and was visible in all the deals, it usually was his wife who held the purse strings, managed the family finances and kept the home in order.
What is that Thai proverb? “Thai women are the hind legs of the elephant…” or something like that.
Although I would agree that there are some adventurous Thai women inhabiting the “farangland” haunts in Bangkok, I’m not convinced that they are exactly the cream of the crop - plucky, risk-taking and adventurous maybe, but not the “cream of Thai womanhood”. There are many motivations for Thai women to step out of their comfort zone and migrate into the farang dating scene and the writer covered a lot of them. All in all, I really like the analogies to the game of poker, although I’m not a player myself.
Last but not least, do any of you readers have comments on the ABAC Polls of recent years whereby they surveyed young “Isan” girls and asked them what they want to be when they grow up? “Mia Farang” was the answer… Due to the influx of foreigners marrying Isan damsels and building big houses in the village, buying pick-up trucks and literally pulling families out of poverty overnight, evidently, this is now the number one career choice for poor Northeasterner girls.
However, they still have to figure out a way to meet their future farang husband… Welcome to “farangland” Sukhumvit!
View all comments by Bison
A really nice insightful article, but I do have one negative comment. You talk positively about TGs improving their lot:
International immigration self selects for intelligence, entrepreneurial spirit, and creative thinking. Those who choose to uproot themselves from their home country and risk everything by migrating to a foreign country to seek a better life are the creative, intelligent, entrepreneurial risk takers.
But when guys do the same by seeking opportunities outside the norm, they’re losers?
The men who settle in Thailand are not the best and the brightest from their countries. In fact, many men relocate to Thailand because their socio-economic performance back home was anything but stellar.
View all comments by Bangkok Barry
Amen brother - very good essay, very insightful. I agree with just about every point made.
I agree with Bison, I met a girl from Ubon Ratchatani (south Isan) who introduced me to her daughter, a lovely little 5 year old, who even at 5 years old was telling me that she wanted to be with a farang when she was older, would get up and dance in the same way the girls at the after hours clubs dance whenever american style songs came on the radio and told me that as soon as she was old enough she wanted to move to Bangkok and get a job in Soi Cowboy. Even at 5 years old and not attending school full time I could still see the beginnings of a TG ready to boyfriend/marry/fleece a/many farang/s.
I’ve only been back in Australia for 3 weeks, but when I went to the travel agent to book my return ticket to Thailand, I was given all the brochures about travelling to Northeastern Thailand. Apparently, the Isan people were feeling ripped off that the tourists were spending all their dollars in Bangkok and the southern beach tourist destinations, and also the girls were looking to meet more farangs, who they could possibly boyfriend/marry. I was reading that the highest percentage of girls in internet dating were from the Isan area, keen to find a farang man to save them and their families from poverty.
View all comments by Jase
good comments and good writeup but I also think the branding all guys who live here as degenerates is pretty out of line. I mean some are but not all so it seems to be too wide of a generalization in my book.
Interesting post though. I also am not sure the best and brightest that Thailand has to offer in women are the ones trolling Suk for Farangs. I think they are the ones most curious about Farangs and the ones looking for the easiest ways to a marriage and perceived prosperity.
I am sure there will be plenty of chatter on the subject either way.
View all comments by smitty
It’s been a while since I have had a chance to read and agree with 100% of a post.
Business world and poker world are sometime very much the same, when thinking like the person on the other side of the table gives you a great advantage.
Coming from the business world I felt the same things about TG.
I am lucky to be in fine relationship with a TG and understanding her way of thinking and her view of the world help us overcome difficulties.
Thank you
View all comments by Weston FL
Right on cue: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/read.php?newsid=30051455 sent in from Mochalover. It’s a story in The Nation today about a farang getting “sucked out” for 17 million baht by a TG.
View all comments by pmmp
Good article, I agree with your assessment of the Thai class system preventing lower class girls marrying upper class men regardless of how pretty they are, which is why Thailand has 100 women for every eligible bachelor.
However, IMO, the smarter and more attractive “cream of the crop” does not hang out on lower Sukhumvit trawling for farangs.
There is a whole world of professional gigs and mia noi’s out there who don’t get to marry above their class but look and act classy enough to live off upper class sugar daddies. They might not shun a nice farang with money if the opportunity presents itself but these girls don’t go looking for it on lower Sukhumvit and probably don’t even know Nana Plaza exists.
From the rich Thai guy’s perspective the girls on lower Sukhumvit are the bottom of the barrel, not just too low to marry, but even too low to have as a fuck buddy.
View all comments by Orion
Does anyone know where all the girls go that don’t manage to marry a farang or Thai with money before they hit the 30+ mark?
Do they make sausages out of them or do they have some secret upcountry hiding place?
View all comments by Orion
Some of the girls go for Farang because they think there handsome. They love the football games to see the guys and think how exotic they are to us. We must be exotic to them also.
View all comments by Young Royal
Bangkok Barry,
I think the difference is that in international migration it is mostly young people with their lives ahead of them leaving to earn higher incomes in foreign countries.
In the case of Thailand, it is older men whose peak earning years have already passed who move to Thailand because they can have a better lifestyle with the income or savings they already have.
No one moves to Thailand because they can earn more in Thailand than they can back in The World.
Smitty,
I did not intend to brand the men in Thailand as degenerates–just point out the fact that they are frequently outclassed in The Game by the TG’s they meet.
IMHO, the men who date TG are usually really nice guys who also get mis-characterized just like the TG’s.
Part 2, whenever I get around to posting it, addresses this.
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
I hate the constant prattle that (almost) the only thing Thai women see in white males is economic advancement. If a huge number of white males find Thai women particularly alluring and enticing, why is it so impossible for most people to believe that a similar attraction could quite possibly, in a great many cases, flow the other way as well?
View all comments by Old Asia Hand
I work for a large international company with a large office in Bangkok. We hire loads of young Thai women…engineers, educated, english speaking, college grads.
Believe me, they aren’t above going out for drinks and a good time with their male, non-local counterparts.
Although I haven’t hit the motherlode yet, I’m still looking for the one to take me into my retirement years.
Having said that, many of them, the more modivated ones, can’t wait to be re-assigned to locations out of Thailand.
As it’s been said on this thread, life doesn’t begin and end on Lower Sukhumvit.
View all comments by bo
orion - I hear u. when I used to work with some moneyed Thais I was also impressed with the places they went to, they way they commandeered hot Thai women and they way they laughed at Farang getting worked over by not so hot women.
oah - my feelings exactly. Some of us can be just simply attracted to what we are not. I don’t think every Thai women is looking for the money play. Especially the ones that actually earn a living - big or not. They are just happy to be with someone who is not Thai, has a western way of thinking and offers a chance for a life different than one where they would have married Thai and never traveled around.
bo - agreed. The issue is what one looks for in a partner. Mochalover and I have mentioned many times that one can troll the right places and get a non bargirl but u have to understand what you are getting. She may not be too into your Farang way of partying and getting around. So I tend to go with tweeners or girls who know the scene but might be looking for something better. A straight up Thai educated office girl probably would not put up with my carousing ways. Other people looking for that picture perfect life someday though may find a cute office girl just what the doctor ordered.
At the end of the day though - I suggest getting out of lower suk from time to time.
View all comments by smitty
Kenny…as someone who played professionally, albeit, online, to get my stake, I think what you’re missing is that Thai Girls know, and it’s instinctive, that it’s OK to draw to an inside straight.
If the odds are correct, you make the call, if not, you don’t.
The “problem” if you will, is that most farangs don’t know when they’re being called with the odds NOT in their favor and as such, get pissed off when they get “sucked out”.
Smart players don’t mind getting sucked out because they know the odds…the suckers are the ones who get pissed off.
View all comments by The Asian Badger
BBK - first, let me just get this off my chest: Liz Lieu is the best-looking “famous” pro player right now. you’re killing your credibility. and it’s Jen Tilly. i had the privilege of playing across from Lieu at a WPT event a couple years back… wow is all i have to say. she keeps her glamour shots on myspace, btw — http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=38215343
2nd — good to see you’re making a go of it. do you live in bkk and play online? i played 2 years full-time, split between vegas & reno. averaged $42/hour at middle limits in vegas, much less in reno. then was offered a software contracting job at 4.5X what i made playing poker (in vegas), so decided to chase the money, but i miss the game. if i could make that in BKK, i’d do it, but my best guess was that it wasn’t possible to make $42/hour online (for me… based on my ability). congrats on making it your life’s choice though, man i have to say i miss it like no other “job” i’ve ever had, so while i’m making the $ here in farangland, freezing my ass off and 100% celibate, i envy you like you couldn’t imagine.
3rd — thai girls and farang men in thailand, like poker hands, each need to be evaluated on their own merit, each time, based on the circumstances. (also) like poker, you hang around long enough, and you see it all… from all sides of the spectrum. sometimes the thai woman really is evil and the whining farang has very valid points. sometimes it’s just the opposite. on the internet we typically only see 2 extreme perspectives: 1) “an evil thai woman screwed me,” or 2) “take pity on those poor thai women, they can do no wrong.”
but let’s be realistic. though sometimes both those perspectives are accurate, the vast majority of situations i’ve seen are far between them.
right now what lingers in my mind though was the post here on this website just a few days back… “wan sum food?” http://www.2thebigmango.com/reader-submissions/2007/10/02/wan-sum-food-by-day-walker/#more-471
for some reason it pissed me off. i kept thinking, maybe in this interactions, farangs are “right” 90% of the time, but when we’re wrong, we’re obnoxious assholes. the Thais are far more humble and polite, wrong or right. that story should’ve been just a misunderstanding with no hard feelings, but because the farang was so rude, it sure wasn’t that. if a thai had made his mistake, he would’ve done it much more politely and the other person could’ve walked away without such a bad taste in her mouth. that guy made me ashamed to be farang after reading that story…
but i guess, on the point of your article, most of what i have to say is: “each situation deserves to be evaluated on its own merits.” but yeah, when i read a farang sob story on the internet, i too always wonder if the guy had it coming. som nam na?
thanks for the fun read bbk.
View all comments by fountainhead
Fountainhead…..
Sorry to have “pissed you off” with my little tale…!
This was clearly a case of miss-communication. Believe me, my friend the ‘beast’ felt like an idiot the next day.
‘Som nam ma’? Well.. we can’t forget or ignore the horror stories which make some of us over cautious or defensive.
I think the ‘beast’ would have felt a bigger idiot the next day if instead of finding her food, he found an empty parking space?
Personally, I just chuckled that his night ended in a bit of ‘hand-to-gland-combat’.
View all comments by Day walker
DW - you didn’t piss me off.
your buddy pissed off some thai. and in that situation, she had good reason, and now she’s probably just another thai out there walking around with a “stupid fucking farang” story (just like some of the guys on the board blame all thai women for what 1 does to them, some thais blame all white boys for what one does), but in this case, she’s damn right.
his actions and demeanor reflect poorly on every white man in bangkok.
your friend only felt bad because he was wrong, not because he acted like a prick. he could have denied her the keys (i would have too, given the misunderstanding) without being crude/rude in a society where that’s anathema.
if he had behaved just a little more “thai” than “new yorker,”
maybe she still wouldn’t have eaten that night (like i said, in that situation, i wouldn’t have handed over my keys either), but she wouldn’t be walking around thinking “white men are assholes” and potentially thinking of how to screw the next one that comes along.
given that he lives in BKK and not new york, don’t you think a slight attitude shift might be better for everybody, and more respectful of those hosting him as a guest (which is what he is, unless his passport is thai, but some of us seem to forget that we’re not at home and our behavior is studied by our hosts and often attributed to everybody in our home countries)?
of course there’s a slew of horror stories, some where the thai women are nothing less than calculating, deceitful thieves — we should note them and take caution. nobody denies that (except maybe the thais).
i just think we often see only the negative perspective (towards thais), and often hear only 1 side of the story. there’s no doubt in my mind that in SOME of the “horror stories,” the white boy who claims to have been screwed by the thai woman had it coming to him.
but he’s never going to tell us that (or why), and we’ll never hear from the thai woman in the story.
View all comments by fountainhead
fh - I agree. It is how typical Farang handle everyday situations that set them apart. They tend to blow up or get hot headed quite easily. Usually it is not warranted. People always ask me about how safe I feel in Thailand and I must say the only times I have ever felt threatened was from other Farang. In general I am learning to be more Thai in how I react to things, how I try to deal for things and in how I treat the women. Seems to be making it easier and I get laid even more.
View all comments by smitty
Smitty: “In general I am learning to be more Thai in how . . . I treat the women. Seems to be making it easier and I get laid even more.”
No skepticism on my part, just curiousity: What specific ‘Thai’ ways do you utilize in treating the women, as opposed to methods previously used by you, or often used by farangs?
View all comments by DJ
DJ - I can’t talk for smitty but IME for Thai women nothing is a bigger turn on than a good joke.
Open with a pickup line that will make her laugh and you have her immediate attention. Make fun of yourself, make a little fun of her and avoid serious talk. Keep her giggling all the way to your bedroom to score.
What does not work is poring out your sad life story, trying to extract hers and make long winded explanations of what you do for a living.
Thais like sanuk and talok. If you are not sanuk to talk to then you’re not getting any.
View all comments by Orion
dj - probably hard to explain in succinct way on the blog but over time I am learning to not put up with stupid shit, treat them with respect, demand respect from them but at the same time learn to have more fun and be less worried about the day to day outcomes. Meaning - I can lose them if they don’t like what I have to offer them and I won’t be too worried about it. Then find that if u don’t have that fear of losing them they tend to stop a lot of the BS. I am also finding that for centuries a lot of Thai men have had multiple gfs/partners. I think I can too, but be upfront about it and be okay with it. We shall see how it all pans out.
View all comments by smitty
Orion and Smitty: Absolutely agree sanuk and smiles are the key to getting what many of us are looking for here: Good sex, good fun, and no relationship obligations to hinder the first 2.
Letting the ladies know they’re dispensable gives us more control, and discourages them from playing the ’squeeze the money from the tourist’ games.
You left out some the ’smacking them around’ and ‘taking their money’ traits of some Thai males. Let’s hope our methods don’t morph into these behaviours.
View all comments by DJ
Take the power back!
View all comments by Young Royal
dj - was not talking about that kind of behavior. The 2 times I have tangled with Thai guys in Thailand is to keep them from smacking around a girl. No matter what a girl has done that is usually not called for. I meant more by attitude and general demeanor and expectations.
We all see the whipped Farang.
Mopey dude in the Gold store buying a third bracelet for his girl as a way to show love. U see any Thai guys doing that?
The guys who can never go out without their gf in tow. Go to the member clubs and massage parlors. Tons of Thai guys out on the piss with their mates chatting up girls. U rarely see them on the phone or madly texting.
I am sure people have experienced or have seen countless examples of what I am describing. I have been there myself but I have learned.
use the force…
View all comments by smitty
Smitty, DJ, Orion, and Young Royal
The “Mopey dude in the gold store buying a third bracelet for his girls as a way to show love” is a Hometown Hero getting clocked.
I left out the part about the Hometown Heroes who do manage to become everyday winners in the bigger poker games.
In poker, if there is no one to help you, it takes a lot of money, time, and thinking—playing a losing game against better players, watching them, thinking about what they are doing, changing your own game, to eventually put together a winning game.
In poker, you can accelerate the process by reading poker books and nowadays reading the internet.
I think the same thing goes on in Thailand. The hometown heroes who hang around and don’t fall into some of the more serious pitfalls e.g. getting married, getting a TG pregnant, getting so mind fucked that their head is not on straight anymore and they lose the ability to think clearly, etc., running out of money, etc. can eventually figure things out and get on top of The Game.
Just like poker, you can accelerate the process by reading the internet e.g. the Big Mango Blog and accelerate the progress up the learning curve.
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
Like others, I’ve progressed from being the 1st-time tourist ‘mopey dude’ buying gaudy gold jewelry,
to falling for the BG line “I just want to stay with you; you don’t have to give me money” (1 year passes before you can manage to be single again),
to learning the skills needed to stay single and have ‘friend’ relationships with the BGs while still having fun.
Anyone recall the film ‘Fast Times at Ridgemont High’, in which the school Romeo explains his successful ‘Attitude’ towards girls:
“Don’t talk to her. Let her know. Use your face. Use your body. Use everything. I just send out the vibe and girls do respond. You don’t care if she comes, stays, lays or prays. Whatever happens, your toes are still tappin’.”
View all comments by DJ
Very interesting discussion. I agree that the key to success with Thai gals is to be a man. You dont take any crap and u let them know u r the boss, but smile and enjoy life while exhibiting this confident demeanor. They can smell fear like a pit bull and any weak man is really better off not dealing with them at all. Really goes for women in any country doesnt it? Somehow the west has raised an entire generation of emotionally weak men, and a weak man with a lot of money will be a target anywhere he goes.
I also get a lot of laughs watching these guys get shredded by the same Thai gals they love to call stupid. Really we should have to pay for this entertainment!! I have a casual mate from the UK who has spent 95% of his lifetime savings ona local lass, but still likes to tell me how stupid she is. I was forced to say the following to him:
“She has 6 years of education, comes from a dirt poor family, but has managed to find a way to make a tremendous amount of money for doing next to nothing. You have an MBA, come from wealth and privelege, but are spending all of your money on her. And SHE is the stupid one?”
View all comments by Khun Leigh
When I said I enjoy watching a farang with an inflated opinion of himself and the superiority of his race and culture being taken down by a TG in The Game, I didn’t mean I enjoy watching a guy get swindled or destroyed financially and/or emotionally.
I was thinking more along the lines of paying a few thousand baht extra for ST/LT, getting hit up for a gold bracelet or cellphone that costs a couple of hundred USD, or paying $500-$1000 USD per month for exclusive mistress services that are not all that exclusive—real money but nothing serious or life altering.
Although, this is another area I think TG’s get a raw deal on the internet. IMHO, more men lose more money marrying gold diggers in The World than they lose buying houses for their Thai wifes or their families.
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
This is one of the most correct (and most concise) statements I’ve ever read from BigBabyKenny: “I think TG’s get a raw deal on the internet…. more men lose more money marrying gold diggers in The World than they lose buying houses for their Thai wifes [sic] or their families.”
My ex-wife got about a million dollars at the end, in addition to the $100,000 or so every year of our marriage. Whether it’s three or four different girls a week or a steady girl for months, Thai girls cost me 10% of what ex-Mrs Werewolf did, and give me only 5% of the headaches.
View all comments by werewolf
BBK : Are you a 2+2 regular? What stakes?
Poker is 75% of my income, I go out regulary with a crew of pro player if you feel like hanging out with colleagues.
View all comments by RRR
Tangling with Thai guys and picking up Thai girls, reminds me of a funny story…
I was alone in a really Thai disco in Pattaya. There was a table with 3 chairs, each with a Thai guy sitting in it. 3 Thai girls were dancing in front of the table, one of them really cute. I smiled at her, she smiled at me so I stood a little closer. She smiled again and I stepped over to say hi and one of the three Thai guys jumps out of his chair in between us and pulls the girl away, like “you can’t talk to a farang”.
I was furious, but not dumb enough to start throwing unprovoked punches with all the bouncers around, so I sat down in the Thai guy’s chair, crossed my arms and gave him a defiant “what are you gonna do about it?” look.
The other 2 Thai guys saw what happened and started laughing and pored me a drink from their whiskey bottle. We started chatting and they turned out to be pretty cool guys and the situation defused. They were from Bangkok for the weekend and I hung out with them for the rest of the night and at some point the cute girl asked me my phone number.
On Monday morning she calls me: “Wanna meet up for sushi in Yaohan at 1pm?”, “Ok see you there
”. 12:30 she calls again “Where do you live? Is it Ok if I meet you at your apartment first?”… “ uuhhhh OK!! 
”. She just wanted to come over and fuck… Turned into a very uncomplicated fuck buddy who would visit me in the afternoon a few times a week. Just sex, no annoying keetung calls and messages every 5 mins.
I hooked up in Bangkok with those Thai guys quite a few times and the cute girl was usually there as well, she told me “don’t tell them about us or touch me in front of them or they’ll get jealous”. I thought fair enough and ignored her while I was with them. They even hooked me up with other Thai chicks right in front of her so I enjoyed keeping the secret
Many months later I found out the cute girl and the Thai guy that pored me the whiskey had been a couple and living together all along. Thais show so little affection in public that I simply had no idea…
View all comments by Orion
RRR
At one point, I asked around to see if there are any private poker games in Bangkok.
I played in the weekend pool tournaments at the Ball In Hand underneath Times Square and inquired among the pool players there but have never found one.
Frankly, I would be afraid to play in a private game in Thailand for real money. If there was real money in play, the chances of eventually getting cheated, robbed, or simply not getting paid if you win would be 100% IMHO.
I have been to a couple of underground casinos in Bangkok but there were no poker games–only Pan 9 and Baccarat were spread.
BTW. the odds offered in those games were terrible compared to legal casinos in Las Vegas and, again, if you were to bet real money and get lucky, I am not sure what the chances are that you would ever get away with the money.
IMHO, either the house would fix the game so if you kept playing you would lose or someone would follow you home and rob you.
At one of the underground bangkok casinos, the host approached me and let me know that the female dealers were available to take home if I was inclined.
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
way off-topic, but…
i always assumed that amongst the americans in BKK, there’d be plenty of poker players. it just seems to be a lifestyle match to me…
but until now i’ve always wondered where they were… never see them in the other forums and when i meet guys face-to-face in LOS, eventually i’ll steer the conversation that direction and haven’t found many players there either.
glad i’ve finally found where you’re all hanging out.
now to test my next hypothesis — how many of you consider New Orleans or Las Vegas your “US city of choice?”
i’ll leave you with one of my favorite quotes on americana, which i heard shortly after katrina hit — “without new orleans, america would just be a bunch of free people dying of boredom.”
View all comments by fountainhead
“At one of the underground bangkok casinos, the host approached me and let me know that the female dealers were available to take home if I was inclined.”
Bangkok is beautiful
View all comments by RRR