Long Ball Customers usually fit a profile. They are older (30+) and have visited Thailand multiple times. The novelty of being able to go home with a different girl every night has worn off or at least they are temporarily burned out on it. They prefer a semi-long term relationship with a fun to be with, attractive sexual girl, around whom they can relax and enjoy quality regular banging with no problems.
Not all TG’s can Play Long Ball.
If a TG is going to play Long Ball, it means entertaining a farang for extended periods of time. Just being superhot or a super banger is not enough game to be a successful Long Ball Player. The TG Long Ball Player has to be fun to be with outside the bedroom.
Playing Long Ball requires a different bigger skill set than playing Short Ball.
The Number One skill is reasonable English skills.
Number Two is a pleasant and fun personality or if you don’t have one the ability to mimic one.
Number Three is the ability to read people.
Number Four is some experience with farang men and culture. Getting pissed off every time a farang unknowingly violates a Thai cultural taboo is a deal breaker.
TG’s with these skills bank in the Long Ball Game.
At Gulliver’s you see the same girls week in and week out serially dating different men. If you befriend them, you see the same men appearing again and again over months and years and always returning to the same TG. The TG Long Ball Players themselves periodically disappear and reappear from the Bangkok scene as they go on trips with their customers and they frequently disappear after hitting the ultimate Long Ball—finding a farang husband or moving in with a long term boyfriend.
Successful Long Ball Players frequently have nice apartments near Sukhumvit where regular customers are regularly invited to move in for the week or so they are in Bangkok.
Long Ball Players usually present themselves with a little more class than the typical TG GoGo, beer bar, or Biergarten, Nana parking lot girl. Nice dresses, better haircuts and dye jobs, skillfully selected and applied makeup, sexy heels and matching bra and panty sets are more common. Most converse well and don’t fall back on the tired standard, “what your name?”, “where you from?”, “where you stay?”, “how long you stay” script when you first meet them.
Scratch the surface of a good Long Ball Player and you find a depth of knowledge and understanding about pleasing men that shames Oprah, Doctor Joyce, Dr. Ruth, and other commercial western relationship experts. If you hang around these girls and get to watch them work a newbie, you will be amazed at how quickly, how much, and how effortlessly they extract relevant accurate information and how effectively they use that information to achieve their objectives.
If they decide a newbie is a good prospect and you get to watch the sales phase of the transaction you can only come away impressed with their chameleon like abilities. A little hint that you like playing drinking games, want to bitch and moan about your shitty love life or evil ex-wife back in The World, or like your women shy and girly, and the good Long Ball Player will be rolling dice, dishing out sympathy, or batting her eyelashes coquettishly in instant and with great aplomb.
Hanging with good Long Ball Players is completely different that being with Short Ball Players because the Long Ball Player makes her money by providing value–Sanuk at a reasonable price.
The number of ways to have fun is larger with a Long Ball Player. It is fun to karaoke, play pool, disco (even at Q-bar, Spasso, and Conrad), eat at a nice restaurant, go to the beach, or just get drunk with the Long Ball Player. You can go out and have fun all evening, go home with a cool, fun, good looking chick, and bang until sunrise—worry free and guaranteed.
Problems are also less frequent with Long Ball Players. You don’t have to worry about being abused with the Short Player Arsenal of tricks because these are an income reducing move in the Long Ball Game. Losing a regular customer by trying to scam a few hundred baht is not good business in the Long Ball World.
Long Ball Players also offer a different banging experience. It is not enough to just be good looking because if the only reason you are banging a girl is because she is good looking, the novelty quickly wears off—especially in Thailand where there is a super abundance of good looking girls. Long Ball requires making repeat banging a pleasurable experience. You can use your own imagination to fill in what this means.
Most of the interminable and insufferable bitching and moaning from the long time expats about how TG’s used to be nicer, provide better service, be more respectful, wash their underwear for free, blah blah blah is because those long time whiners are expecting a Long Ball Experience from girls working in a Short Ball market, i.e. pulling from GoGo’s and Beerbars in Nana, Soi Cowboy, and Patpong and getting mad when the girl tries to bang and run, bangs stone style, or attempts petty scams. If they looked in the correct place they could easily find what they claim is no longer available—albeit at a price they won’t pay and that would set off another bout of interminable and insufferable bitching and moaning about “the good old days in Thailand.”
Note:
See http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/StickMarkII/AreMassageParloursABetterOption.htm for a recent example of this. When I encounter these guys and they start on their shtick about how the TG’s used to be nicer to them, better looking blah blah blah, I frequently try to interject, “well you used to better looking too” but my profundity and wit invariably go unacknowledged. 
So what kind of money are we talking here? Prices are variable but the ballpark is 8,000-15,000 THB per week. This is money in the TG’s pocket when you part ways and does not include the cost of entertainment, travel expenses, etc. Sometimes staying with the girl is thrown in as a perk.
Everyone has their own transacting style but I recommend you have an honest talk with your TG shortly after the first bang or whenever you come to a decision about Long Balling her. It is good to settle on a ballpark figure so the TG knows what to expect. You might also try making an installment payment at the beginning—1/4 to 1/3 the agreed upon amount to give the girl some confidence you are a straight shooter. Settling the financial details early clears the air and clears the field of fire for extended sanuk.
Most of the time, the Long Ball Player will let the guy decide what is appropriate. Believe it or not, most Long Ball Customers are amazingly generous. I learned this over time from asking multiple Long Ballers what they got paid after guys have left town.
At first I was surprised by the numbers but upon extended contemplation it began to make sense. Whose heart wouldn’t melt a little after being with a beautiful, fun loving, good hearted super hottie who dedicates 100% of her mind and body to making you happy and who bangs like something an evil scientist created by cross breeding an energizer bunny, a first class Japanese geisha, and a nymphomaniac.
At the end of their trip if they feel good about their overall experience Long Ball customers frequently really take care of the girl. Befriend some of these girls and ask what different guys paid them and you will probably be surprised.
Thai society frequently brings out the best in people and you frequently see this at settlement time in the Long Ball Game.
At first glance, Long Ball seems expensive but if you consider TCO (total cost of ownership), add up the price of going out every night, liquor, cover charges, taxis, wasted bar fines, etc. of playing Short Ball, Long Ball is amazingly economical, cost effective, and most importantly loads of fun. That is what you are here in Thailand for, right?
If you are feeling a little jaded, I highly recommend a couple of weeks of Long Ball.
This essay has grown pretty large so I’ll end this here and finish up later.
Thanks for this well written contribution…Over the years i’ve noticed some work the biergarten , then go home and clean up for Gullivers..But, there are some realy shiny ones who woldn’t think of going to the BG..Great variety in Gullivers and a lot of falangs to compete with…
Also, they don’t seem to work the bar over a year, guess they get that whale or farm another pond..
The Gulliver’s in Pattaya is just too far north for most, but the more expensive sponsored free lancers from Naklua with out of country payers are working it some now if the get bored of the Hard Rock hotel.
Wouldn’t it be great if one of those girls had the energy and skills to write a book about travling the circuit..Patong, Nana, Walking Street, etc.. ?
View all comments by Pattaya Gary
PG - I have always thought it would be amazing if one of the Thai working girls would write a first hand account of doing the Thai circuit and telling it like it is. It would be amazing - imagine a day by day blog of a Thai working girl. It would be captivating I think. One of the things I enjoy the most is when I go out with some people, not close friends per say, and one of the dudes will hook up with a freelance girl that I know or one of my Thai girls knows. If the dude ends up being a weirdo or something it will usually be the conversation the next day between the Thai girls chatting on the phone. I have heard some good ones.
Maybe will need to ghost write for some girl…
View all comments by smitty
I haven’t seen a truly cute girl in Gulliver’s for months, but it’s certainly worth a visit. The fact that they have a designated vomiting sink in the Gents just warms my heart every time I see it.
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
A very nice contribution to the Big Mango Blog. This should be a must read for every guy who’s going to BKK for the first time.
BTW, the phraseology of “Long Ball” is actually from American baseball. It’s long ball vs. small ball. Long ball is get two guys on and hit a home run. Small ball is walk, steal, bunt, sac fly. Score a run without an official at bat. One run at a time. I’ve never heard it used in the poker world. But I digress.
You know, it’s funny. In the old days i.e. the mid to late ’80s (no, I’m not bitching) most girls played the Long Ball at the outset.
Part of the reason for this was competition, i.e. not as many tourists then as now (the only real action was Patpong…Cowboy was a “locals” place for the most part, and Nana did not exist.)
Darling’s was the massage joint of choice and frankly, there wasn’t much choice for Farangs. Pattaya was a shadow of what it is today.
Nevertheless, the supply of BGs was much greater than the demand.
But times change and with demand comes varying degree of supply. Also, it seems to me (my last visit after an absence of 15 years about 9 mos. ago when I had a Fanfuckingtastic Cheeseburger at the Fanfuckingtastic BIG MANGO BAR) it also seemed to me that the punter mean age is different. Lots more older guys with money who in fact, showered EVERY day.
Of course back then, the girls then would turn to “small ball” in a hurry if the situation dictated it. But most of them started out playing the long ball. Oddly enough, many good girls who decided to explore the world of “Big Pink” played it as small ball from the outset which I guess is to be expected. Sometimes it turned into Long Ball after a relationship was established.
When I was last in BKK, it watched the interaction at various places. It was interesting to me since so much had changed. One of the things I noticed was the the Long Ball vs. Small Ball players (on both sides) seemed to kind of gravitate toward each other at the outset. Like I say, the average older punter is a little more discerning about the business of P4P having been around a little more than a 22 year old kid.
The saddest (?) thing I think are the stories that are told all the time (see: Stickman) about the small baller who convinces a guy she is a long baller. Bye bye bankroll. (Had to work in a poker reference.) Ugliness usually ensues.
I think that’s because younger noobs let a 4oz. piece of flesh control everything and there are more of them now (young noobs) than I remember. Guys in BKK who have experience (regardless of age) or older guys on first time visits are a little wiser.
View all comments by The Asian Badger
Yes. BBK did it again. Great post!
AB - what is the big pink?
View all comments by smitty
BBK what brillance, I would never have conscribed the differnce of short/long ball players in the way you magnificently put and oh soooooo accurate….brillant:
Gullivers has always been a favourite if I’m looking for a social take-away, i.e. long weekend in Samui, normally it will set me back 20,000baht all inclusive, I’ve meet very intelligent girls there, good knowledge & conversationalist, great social company, well mannered, excellant dressed and very street smart, ideal long haul company.
Another brillant report, accurate to a tee!!!!
Smitty - Without question TG blog version would be the biggest read of all time;
View all comments by laocowboy
I’m sorry.
Does “going long” meaning banging the same girl over consecutive nights?
Danger, Will Robinson, that does not compute.
View all comments by Jack Dawson
I’m more familiar with long time fees.
I’ll be the first the admit, that even I, The Great Galt is forced to pay more each year. The economics are simple, if it costs more for that girl to be available, it costs more for play. Fortunately, economic pressures being such, also keep the “product” available.
How did my brain get so smart?
John Galt
View all comments by Keith Summers
Oh for the days when I could bang several girls a day. Now 1 a day does me as long as I moderate the number of alcohol units.
Having walked past Gullivers about 50 times I think it will be worth having a look next month. A dedicated vomiting sink - now that’s class.
Shamefully I haven’t been to the Big Mango either. Will have to rectify that oversight too.
View all comments by Wombat
Great post about the long ball game. After making the typical newbie mistakes, i also met a nice TG on Phuket at my first stay in Thailand two years ago and was with her 2 weeks, met her friends, ate at her house, had a great trip around the island tour and felt like being incorporated in her social network. Did I mention she had cup C and the sex was great? Very nice experience. She never actively asked for money and had a Farang boyfriend sending her some money every month. But I also left some Baht for her. My rule is I always give girls money, no matter what kind of relationship I have to them. I remember overall it was just 5000 or 6000 Baht, plus all everyday expenses. Reading BBK’s article it looks like I got a real bargain. But the prices mentioned by BBK would also be ok for me.
On my last stay I also had a regular Thai girlfriend but also went with three freelance short ballers, two of them were great, one was the “stone type”.
So for me both ways work fine. But having a nice Long Baller is truly great and let’s you have insights into Thai culture, behavior and thinking you would never get from a short baller.
View all comments by Phoenix
Awesome stuff BBK. Looks like the ultimate source of information Wikipedia, wink wink, gives Football the credit as originator of “Long Ball” with no origin for “Short Ball”, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_ball. Maybe somebody can amend the Wiki for “Long Ball” to add TG’s and add one for “Short Ball”?
BTW, I would say that Beer Bars have many Long Ball players too, but they seem to play Short Ball as well. We’ve had girls that worked at our bar that only wanted to play Long Ball. It actually pissed off many Short Ball customers. Big Dog’s for example, the corner of Nana Plaza beer bar on Suk Soi 4, has quite a few of the best Long Ball players in town.
View all comments by pmmp
Smitty….”Big Pink” was slang back then for farang dick. It was slang for sleeping with a farang…i.e. she was going to get some “big pink” between the sheets.
Sounds like it isn’t used anymore.
View all comments by The Asian Badger
“The average Thai person is innately honest, has great personal integrity, and exemplifies good character.”
Good Lord. I don’t want to start a war here guys, but a statement like that one I quoted above is just so breathtakingly naive that it causes me to doubt everything else the writer has to say. No one who has the dimmest idea of the way anything in Thailand functions could possibly spout starry-eyed nonsense like that.
View all comments by Old Asia Hand
A rather too lengthy and self indulgent over analysis IMHO.
View all comments by Combover
AB - thanks. now I know. We need to add to the dictionary.
OAH - I think BBK may be oversimplifying but the I think the average Thai people are a pretty good lot.
CO - It’s cool but I think it was a great post and extremely highly read and commented already.
View all comments by smitty
One more folks - Stone cold banging - is that like starfishing?
View all comments by smitty
Starfishing is when a girl is inexperienced or just doesn’t know very much. Her banging style is not from choice it is the only one she is capable of.
Stone style banging is when a girl is experienced, versatile, and has a lot of knowledge but doesn’t bother to use any of it because there is no financial or emotional reason to do so.
“banging like a stone” comes from TG’s themselves. It is a frequently used and well understood phrase used by TG’s in the after action report to their comrades.
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
“It is a frequently used and well understood phrase used by TG’s in the after action report to their comrades.”
…and that is why the bars are empty. Shitty attitudes.
are we witnessing the demise of the Bangkok nitelife scene?
View all comments by Willy Boy
BBK - Thanks for the clarification. We need to work on the blog urban dictionary
WB - tough call. In all the years I have been coming to bkk go go bars have never been my choice of places to pull. I love going, watching the nudity, naked birds in my lap and partying. Very few times do I get a good pull. So to me nothing has changed and there are so many venues for the long pull that I don’t seem to mind. So maybe if u swoop down in for a holiday and the go gos are all u know one might think things are not great but with posts like kenny and all the other venues I can’t imagine someone not having a good time.
I think nightlife in general is as good as ever in bkk.
View all comments by smitty
I recently got back from a short stay in Bangkok and a girl that I bar-fined from Voodoo in NEP said it was one of her favourite hangouts when she wasn’t working (can’t think why!!). I loved the place, great food, great staff, great ambience……..and yes there is a dedicated vomitting sink which I have never seen before anywhere in the world. My only regret is that whenever I went there it was with said girl and in the early afternoon where the place was only quite empty.Even then, there were quite a few hotties hanging out and playing pool with anyone that was interested in playing with them. I do plan to go back to Bkk soon and this time I’ll be entering Gullivers alone and later at night hoping for a take-away treat. I’d be interested to hear from other regulars of Gullivers when the best time of day is to visit. I also went to the Beer-Garden Soi 7 with the same lady (she seemed quite disgusted when I mentioned I wanted to go there!!??) but from what I could see there was only sad middle-aged over-weight mongers and desparate middle-aged women hoping for a tug so that they can pay for their bowl of tom-yum…wouldn’t rush back again, but then that was mid-afternoon too so maybe I’m just hitting places at the wrong time of day??
View all comments by Asiafiend
A year ago(the last time I went to a bar) I went to the Long Gun, saw an enthusiastic dancer on the stage, titty fucking the pole, you name it, a real hot chick. I paid the bar, got to the room, and nothing, she did nothing,…first time I’ve had sex and the girl never put a hand on me.
How many customers does a chick like that chase away from a bar? Does the owner care?
I’ll never go back in there and will be telling my friends the same.
F*** that place. They don’t deserve my business.
View all comments by Willy Boy
@Asiafiend: Gullivers is an afternoon/evening joint really. It’s usually empty by midnight, unless there’s late sport showing on the big screen, in which case there’ll still be some sweaty blokes around.
The soi 7 beergarden’s always a mixed bag. Yes, there are some horrific women to be found working in there, and the male punters are probably 95% desperate fat olds, but this can work in your favour. I’ve seen some real gems in there, but you need luck on your side. Just walk in, do a quick circuit and walk out if nothing takes your fancy. Best time is Saturday/Sunday afternoons towards the end of the month - just before the girls’ rent is due
@Willy: Long Gun is *always* full. They won’t miss your business, unfortunately. It’s a common syndrome in Bangkok’s busier gogos. They know they’re always going to be full, so they have zero incentive to provide anything more than the most basic customer service (ie. bringing drinks to you in exchange for overinflated prices).
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
I agree with BBB about Das Biergarten. Mingers abound but I’ve also met a couple of incredible good fun hotties out for pin money & afternoon recreation.
Gulliver’s is great for watching sport but I think the article overstates the quality of women there. Some of them are very very good pool players though. I’m also not a fan of the food there. I find it too bland.
View all comments by Combover
In the poker world, small ball, according to the 2005 book “Kill Phil” by Blair Rodman and Lee Nelson, is a subtle, intricate strategy that’s difficult to master — and therefore, usually best left to the experts in big time, no-limit Texas hold ‘em tournaments.
The diametric strategy, “long ball” poker, is also known as “big pot” poker, according to Rodman and Nelson. More formulaic than small ball, it’s marked by swinging for the fences by betting all of your chips at once — or going “all-in.”
I think Gulliver’s is the best sports bar in the City of Angles. The food and drink is better than average and the prices are reasonable, IMO. The fact that you can pick up free-lancers in there is a bonus.
The place is massive and the ‘55 Chevy hanging from the ceiling is cool (because I used to own one). The humungous vomit bowl is the only one of its kind I’ve ever seen. Extra points for uniqueness.
I’d be careful using the free internet connection for any business (banking, stock) transactions though. As in any internet cafe, there is the potential for viruses (keylogger programs, etc.).
View all comments by kwai mai sabai
Having played with an exceptional LB TG for the past 5 years I can vouch for the quality and real TGF experience of hooking up with someone who can go out for an evening and still have a great time in bed. In fact, it seems the longer you get to know each other, the more quality you get in return.
Met her in the Big G on Suk, too. I am in LOS for 4 months a year and always take her for a short vacation to Samui, S’pore and even Nam. Hell, think she is turning into my Mia Noi!
Of course, it is still nice to go out for the NEP girls now and then.
View all comments by Shadow
totally agree with combover. this post is way too long for a blog - and very boring. if i want to read a novel i will buy a book from a bookshop.
View all comments by rick
rick and combover are right
why would i read such a long dead post
View all comments by Foto blog
“banging like a stone” comes from TG’s themselves. It is a frequently used and well understood phrase used by TG’s in the after action report to their comrades.”
If the bar owners cared for their customers they would get rid of these lazy cunts. How stupid.
Driving away customers is bad for business, no?
View all comments by Lad
@Lad: The bar owners don’t care for their customers. They care about money. There will always be another coach-load of loaded tourists along in a minute, so why bother trying to keep the (mostly cheapskate) locals happy?
Of course, tourist numbers are down, and if we were in the real world you might see an effort by the bar owners to make a change. But this isn’t the real world, so you won’t.
To be fair, you can always try complaining to the bar manager if the girl doesn’t make any effort. You might get a refund. Don’t hold your breath though.
There are, of course, notable exceptions to the above. Not many though.
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
I did get a refund once when I complained to one of the (farang) managers of one of the miserable gogos down there. The girl’s attitude had gone off the moment we left the bar, so I called it quits before even taking her home and went back for my 500 baht.
View all comments by Combover
Sorry, in the above post I meant to say in Samui.
View all comments by Combover
BBB: Yes, bar owners do care about making money of course and keeping Customers happy, local or sex-tourist, is a means to that end.
As a bar owner I have encountered a few instances where the Customer has come back unhappy. It’s definitely not black and white on what to do. I have refunded bar fines but not many and never because the sex was bad. I’m not saying the sex is always good but I imagine most guys wouldn’t make the effort to recall the bar fine from a bar because the sex was bad. The bar after all doesn’t give a guarantee on sex. However, it’s always a different case and I just consider all the facts and try to make the best call.
I will say this, and this is something all bars should do, if customer complaints add up on a certain girl they should not last at that bar.
As for the lenght of the post I also agree that it was very long but loved reading it. Maybe BBK will break it up a bit more next time. As it stands this is still just Part 1 but I am looking forward to Part 2 for sure.
View all comments by pmmp
@pmmp: I thought it was obvious that I consider the Mango as one of the honourable exceptions
I wasn’t justifying those lesser bar managers’ attitudes - just explaining them. The Thai business mentality adds to the problems, obviously - eg. dealing with a drop in customer numbers by raising their prices to make up the difference…
Anyway, even if a gogo manager were to stipulate that his girls needed to totally and utterly satisfy every customer with warm and enthusiastic sex, his girls would simply leave to work in another bar where it’s more “sanuk” (ie. lazy). I’m generalising again, of course.
Here’s one for you - *should* the sex always be good? If a Mango girl were to “starfish/stone/whatever” a regular customer, would you refund his barfine? Is it bar behaviour on the girl’s part, or is it just to be expected?
Didn’t agree with much in the original piece, but a good debate nonetheless
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
Well folks - as one of the admins here I will apologize and say my bad for not breaking this up into smaller bites. However I don’t think it is a bad post, it is getting very well read and linked in. So the stats kind of speak for themselves in this regard. I will note to deal with longer posts and we are looking into other comment options due to the length of commenting.
I think if a girl consistently was getting complaints then a bar owner should deal with it but I do not see how a bar owner can guarantee good service for the action outside the bar. In fact there is even some legalities regarding this in that the bar is not suppose to be involved with the deal. This is some very gray area around Thailand but can be especially dicey for foreign owners of bars.
View all comments by smitty
“Anyway, even if a gogo manager were to stipulate that his girls needed to totally and utterly satisfy every customer with warm and enthusiastic sex, his girls would simply leave to work in another bar where it’s more “sanuk” (ie. lazy).”
Let the lazy bargirls set the tone for the place? Your joking, right?
How about raising the standards a bit or how about training the staff?
Yesterday, I went out for a beer and immediatly, 2 bar girls pounced on me, would not take no for an answer. Real pests.
I had to repeat my self over and over and over, no,no,no,no.
I hate doing that and quickly drank 2/3 of my beer and could not wait to get out of there.
That’s not fun. Who enjoys that?
You certainly would here less moaning about how slow business is,if the bar owners concentrated on making the customer happy, instead of squeezing every last baht out of them.
View all comments by Lad
BBB: It depends on the circumstance but bad sex doesn’t warrant a bar fine refund normally. However, if I keep getting negative feedback on the girl she won’t last. I agree that most bars, especially Go-Go’s in Bangkok DEFINITELY don’t do this. Try going into Rainbow 4 and asking for a bar fine back because the sex wasn’t good. Not only will they say No but I’m sure the Mamasan will forget about it once you walk out the door.
Lad: Pushy girls is a tough one. We struggle with this every night. What seems to work best is to have one or two semi-aggressive girls and the rest not so aggressive. The girls at the Mango also have to do Service downstairs so it’s a more natural approach to the Customer and doesn’t come off as pushy. It’s impossible to achieve 100% customer satisfaction on this one.
View all comments by pmmp
@pmmp: Agreed. Just interested in the viewpoint from the other side of the counter, as it were. At the end of the day, bad sex is down to the individual girl - not the bar. And if I had to shag some of the blokes I see prowling around NEP, I’d probably lose my enthusiasm from time to time as well…
@Lad: I guess the problem is that girls know they can always walk into another bar and start working there if the owner starts implementing too many rules they don’t like. Dean Barrett just wrote about a gang of girls who all left one bar and went to work in Rainbow 4 after their old boss told them they couldn’t eat at work any more.
If *every* bar owner in Bangkok decreed that girls weren’t allowed to hassle for drinks (but could obviously accept them then offered), that mamasans were to be seen and not heart, and that all staff were to do everything in their power to keep the customers happy, then - well, they’d probably all be on the next bus to Pattaya or Phuket to be honest! I don’t see it happening, anyway.
There really does seem to be a backlash against poor service in (and out of) the bars at the moment though, it’s come up on almost every Bangkok website. I’m surprised more bars aren’t making more of an effort in the middle of a quiet low season. Like 60 baht Beer Lao all night on Wednesdays, for example. Good show chaps - see you tomorrow…
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
IMHO, probably the best article I’ve read regarding Bkk bargirl attributes; accurate, insightful, and damned entertaining. Much better than the drivel usually dispensed in most websites and forums.
Re: Poor service attitudes of girls in bars and beds:
Experienced bar owners/operators feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but I would think few pure farang-oriented bars could survive financially if they did not have ladydrink quotas and commissions. As long as bars have these incentives, many girls are going to be pushy about selling LDs, who can blame them?
I have no problem telling a girl ‘No’ if I don’t want to buy a LD. However, I don’t like a snippy attitude from a girl if I decline to buy the requested drink, nor do I appreciate buying a girl a drink only to have her drop the chit in my bin, then immediately piss off to procure a drink from other customers or chat with her friends.
When a girl is disrespectful, I will tell the boss, if I believe they care about customer service. Most Thai bosses don’t care.
However, I don’t like to ID the specific girl. Hopefully, the boss will take the opportunity to remind the girls what level of customer service is expected; the offending girl will know what she did.
If the girls in a bar frequently act disrespectful, then I will just stop going to that bar.
If a girl is bad company outside the bar, then I will just quickly cut her loose, or pay her what I consider a miminum for lousy ST services. Note that the girls who provide the worst service usually expect the most money (did someone mention Rainbow 4)?
View all comments by DJ
this board is on the way to replacing ‘Mangosauce’, which was IMHO the best blog EVER on Bangkok.
thanks for being entertaining
View all comments by bo
I bought a lady drink in the Morning Night Bar a while ago and then, she was gone, vanished, working over a few other guys for drinks.
I think she had 3 or 4 going at the same time. How much face did I lose on that one. Made me look like a fool.
(I wonder if a Thai guy would tolerate that?)
Of course the management saw nothing wrong with the behavior, after all, they are only interested in is working over the customer. In fact, it is policy.
Could there be a more disrespctfull group of girls or bar staff in the entire indusrty?
View all comments by Former Bar Hopper
DJ: The Mango has a LD quota of 100 drinks per month and a Bar Fine quota of 5 per month. The Salary gets cut if they don’t make these quotas. If they get 90 for instance they make 1000 baht less and so on. We obviously make the most money on booze so we want to make sure the lady helps us sell drinks so we can pay her Salary and make money. The quota helps us weed out the non-performers. However, as you mention this can incent the girl in the wrong way. Besides aggressive behavior they also come up with scams to beat the quotas, like giving their friends money to come into the bar and buy them drinks. Oh the joy. Gotta watch em like hawks but still think quotas are worth doing.
Ling and CO: Appreciate the comments but this is not the place for back and forth attacks so had to delete. Keep it fun, entertaining, respectful, educational and informational. Thanks.
bo: Thanks man. Although we do want to avoid the rants and personal attacks that were prevalent on MS
Former Bar Hopper: We have a girl at our bar that does this. Drives me nuts as I’ve heard from Customers about it. She’s amazing in every other way so we are trying to work with her on it but it’s been difficult. Gotta knock some Long Ball or at least Medium Ball sense into this gal.
FYI all: We are currently working on getting a Wordpress plugin to paginate long posts and associated comments. This page is getting quite lengthy so please bear with us.
View all comments by pmmp
Wow, a girl has to hustle customers for 100 drinks a month?
That’s why they are so pushy.
Remind me to never come to your bar….
View all comments by Former Bar Hopper
FBH - Don’t worry. No need for us to remind u since we will leave the comment up for u. Think of it as like a note to self.
I always assumed that as we tell more about the inner workings of the bar that everyone would be a critic. Which is cool. It is a free world.
100 for LD drinks is not that high. Pretty standard stuff and our bar fine quota is quite low. We also allow non alcoholic and alcoholic drinks to count towards the quota. Most times people tell us are girls are not pushy and tend to not bug people. We don’t allow it whenever we see it. Some people complain are girls are not pushy enough. Can’t please everyone but I don’t think we have encouraged a pushy group of bargirls via our system.
Anyway. Back to reading my “How to run a beer bar in bangkok for Dummies” book. Going to look more closely at the barfine and quota chapter to see if we missed anything.
thanks!
View all comments by smitty
FBH: I went to the Big Mango Bar a couple of times. Yes, I also met one pushy girl there before, but now I ususally talk with another one and also have sat there before without being talked up at all. It’s a nice and friendly atmophere. If you tell a girls you prefer being by yourself, they usually leave you a lone and are still friendly. And: For this commenent I dont get free beer at the Mango
There are so many go-gos and bars where the girls would strip you naked and search your whole body and clothes for money if that were legal behavior. The Mango is surely the least pushy bar at NEP. Maybe you also try the Hilary Bar nearby on Soi Nana, also a nice place for pool and non-pushy girls.
pmmp. Please go on telling outsiders more about inside stuff of the bar scene. I find your comments very valuable and informative. They never kept me from going to your bar or most others, hehe. In the end, I wanna try myself and form my own opinion in “reality”. But to the Q-Bar I will probably really never go after reading the comments on your blog, not my style of entertainment. And the repeated praise of the lesbo show at Suzie Wong proofed soooo true! And there I also didnt feel being pushed. Even had a nice and long chat with the Katoy Mamasam. She also tried to recommend girls to me, but always very politely and came back several times to me during the show to finish her drink with me and chat a little. Nice experience in every respect.
View all comments by Phoenix
yes, i’d have to agree with phoenix. as a regular at the big mango, i have never once experienced a pushy girl and, given that we now know they have a drink quota, i’m surprised i never have. perhaps they have a sense i’m a “cheap charlie” as i walk in the bar. kudos to the management on keeping a leash on the girls, so to speak, as well as to their willingness to talk about some of the inner workings of managing a bar!
View all comments by kallah
FBH: I will also add that we pay the girls 15000 baht a month which is way above the norm. If they hit 90 drinks they get 14000 and then it scales down from there. This probably makes them not so pushy here. If they hit 60 they still make a great Salary.
If you don’t come to this bar because of this Salary structure then I guess you won’t be going to any Beer Bars or GoGo’s in Thailand. We currently have one of the most generous Salary structures of any BB or GG in Thailand. In fact, other bar owners have told us we are over for sure but we are hoping to attract and retain some nice and attractive girls. For the most part it’s been working but it’s definitely not easy getting this right.
View all comments by pmmp
Geez, Phoenix and kallah, quicker to the Submit button than I was. Thanks for the nice words about the bar. I will keep sharing details since they may be of interest to folks and it really doesn’t hurt us to share. If a girl walks in the bar looking for a job I will share all the details with her. Plus, we post job signs around NEP with these details. So, why not?
View all comments by pmmp
The blog was called a ‘User Guide to Gullivers’ however in that respect it was a bit of a misnomer. It really discussed the long ball versus short ball game at length without discussing Gullivers itself. When I read the title I felt a bit of excitement as I thought it would be giving specific details as to the best way to ‘pull’ in Gullivers.
Maybe this information is being saved for a follow up piece.
However, I have walked into Gullivers 5 times in the past and walked out again just as quickly because I did not feel comfortable. It is dark, the girls do not seem to notice you walk in and there are groups of people around small tables in deep conversation. The list of people to play pool is normally always male names.
Contrast this with Bier Garten where a dozen eyes swivel to follow you as you walk in and as soon as you sit down girls are eagerly trying to make eye contact with you. There are long tables at Bier Garten so you can walk around them until you find a girl to your liking. Also it is brightly lit so you can make eye contact.
The bar at the end of Gulliver’s furthest from the door is normally empty. There are no girls sitting/standing there for you to sidle up to. You have to take your chance by finding a space at the bar area nearest the door and you could be sitting down next to girls who are not interested.
If people have regularly ‘pulled’ girls in Gullivers I would be interested to know how they went about it because the atmosphere in there is just like a normal non freelancer bar. In fact many guys have eaten or drank in there not knowing that it was a freelancer bar.
View all comments by Mike Phillips
” If you don’t come to this bar because of this Salary structure then I guess you won’t be going to any Beer Bars or GoGo’s in Thailand. ”
I keep hearing that the bar/nitelife business is dead in Thailand.
Now, I think I know why.
Good luck with the business plan….
View all comments by Former Bar Hopper
15000 a month! Dudes, you’ve gotta be expecting good staff for those wages. Unskilled people at my company’s Bangkok offices earn around 250 baht per day so Big Mango sounds like a great option if you half decent T&A. For reference, I was told by a NEP mama san that she earns about 23,000 per month plus the occasional short time.
View all comments by Combover
CO: I should add that the girls have to do Service, wear the uniform/dresses, and be photographed for the Internet (ie. with clothes on). Since we do Food the Service is more than just schlepping drinks so they have to work for it. I liken the Service they do to a GoGo girl working the pole rather than your average Beer Bar girl which is why we pay them more.
Good point on the wages earned elsewhere. Some of these girls are making way more than the Doctors in this town but that holds true for most countries. Some Strippers and Porn Stars in America certainly make more than the Doctors there too.
FBH: Chill out dude. Nightlife is nowhere near dead in Thailand. A 20 year veteran came in the bar the other day and came up to me to make the point that it’s better now than it’s ever been. He was tired of hearing about the good ole days. He said that “Now” is the good ole days. There is so much diversity in the kind of fun you can have here, more than ever apparently.
I’m not sure if we are off topic anymore so I will try and cover quotas and why we do them in another post.
MikeP: Part 2 is coming and hopefully BBK will cover more about Gullivers. I have never pulled from here either. Probabaly because I was looking for Short Ball like the Bier Garten. At least now I understand it a little better but more info. would be cool.
View all comments by pmmp
I do expect you to talk up the business(since you own a bar) but from a customers point of view, the aggressive hustle by the girls is a big turnoff.
Your policy guarantees I will be buying drinks for your staff or having to say NO,NO, NO allot. No thanks.
Why is it you can’t make a decent living by providing a nice atmosphere, good food & drinks at fair prices?
Having to hustle the customer seems to be a bad approach.
I guess it works in a tourist area where you don’t expect repeat customers.
If I see a lady that might interest me, I will offer to buy drinks, maybe pay the bar, maybe even come back and hang out and tell my friends about the place
View all comments by Former Bar Hopper
FBH: I understand your point. I will do a post on this so we can hash it out better but let’s table the discussion on this thread since it’s a massive thread already.
BTW, believe me when I say that I’m not only a bar owner but a customer as well. I probably spend more time as a customer in fact. I too hate the pushy aspect of bars which is why I am very sensitive about it at the Mango. I’m not going to defend the bar any further because we are not perfect at this by any means. I’ve said my piece and some Customers responded so let’s leave it at that.
View all comments by pmmp
FBH: Just go to the NEP check out 6 bars and gogos there and then go to the Mango. You will know the difference. It makes no sense in critizing a bar that you have never been to.
In EVERY bar with bar girls you will be asked sooner or later to buy a drink for a girl. But at the Mango and many others I have been to it is done in a nice and decent way and one no is usually enough. I dont see whats bad about that. I recommend the Gulliver for you, to get back to the original topic. There are freelancers but no one of them will chat you up. So what bars do you usually go to? What do you recommend? Instead of complaining about things you obviously haven’t experienced yourself you should make some positive suggestions that are a benefit to all readers here. Thats the purpose of this blog as far as I understand it.
pmmp: My comment is probably already off topic. It was my last one to FBH. I am back in my home country now and miss the nice and naughty chats with non-pushy bar girls and freelancers a lot, hehe.
For playing pool and non pushy girls I recommend the Mango and the Hilary Bar. The Hilary Bar opens at 10. a.m. and has some very nice and funny girls (But the roof is partly leacking after heavy rains). I never barfined a girl from there, but from my “interviews” my impresion is that the girls there tend to be a little more expensive than at other freelancer bars. With one girl I met there last time I will surely do some more research next time I return and post the results here
View all comments by Phoenix
I’m going to chip in here as well. I found the Big Mango Bar to be the least pushy and least BS place I have visited in Thailand.
I never did find any of the girls to be pushy. Super efficient at refills, but never pushy about it.
I do think that they “share” who gets the drink order if one has met quota, but no harm in that I would think.
View all comments by Rob
What no-one has mentioned here is the pushiness of the owners at the Big Mango.
On my one and only visit, upon introducing myself, they practically FORCED me to accept a free Beer Lao. This despite the fact that it was nearly 2am on a Monday morning and a responsible management should have strongly cautioned me against drinking more. :-p
View all comments by Combover
hey all. thanks for the defense. We appreciate it tons.
Combover - my bad. we tend to push the beer lao a bit.
View all comments by smitty
Top call BBK…. a really accurate assessment.
Have been to Thailand many times and the points you raise are spot-on.
Spent many hours in Gulliver’s Soi 5 and must say I like the place.
I have always found that the standard of women on the whole is high and the figures you quote are accurate.
View all comments by ChelseaBlue
I will have to put my $.02 in to the discussion of the Big Mango bar tactics. I’ve been there on a few occasions and have gladly bought drinks for the girls and even invented games of chance so they could earn drinks for everyone on staff. It cost me a few bucks but I had a great time and it was quite entertaining and well worth the cost for the value I received. I’m looking forward to coming back in Sept.
View all comments by Search engine dude
True - this post is more on the virtues of bagging a “Long Baller” rather than an in-depth discussion of Gulliver’s on Soi 5, but I found it interesting food for thought.
View all comments by Bison
I read this post for the first time today. The “long baller” describes perfectly the first girl I ever met in Thailand. I met her shooting pool at New Wave on Soi 7.
She became my “pretend-girlfriend”. I have a photo album with dozens of pictures of us feeding birds at the park, shopping in the malls & markets, dancing at clubs, ten pin bowling, sunbathing at the beach, and frolicking in the bed in her Ratchada apartment.
On my second trip to Thailand I stayed in her apartment with her for three weeks. She woke up every morning at 7 am and cleaned the room, we went out every day and did something fun, and she cooked me dinner every night.
The sex was great.
Eventually a European guy asked her to get married & move overseas so she stopped seeing me.
If she hadn’t been the first girl I met in Thailand I might never have fallen for the place the way I did. I’ve had a number of girls who fit the same mold over the years I’ve been here, but being the first, she is the one I remember most fondly.
View all comments by werewolf
Werewolf,
You might enjoy this too.
http://www.2thebigmango.com/?p=382
Despite all the negativity you hear and read about how money hungry, hardened, and just about business TG’s are, IMHO I think it is overstated.
Like yourself, I have met many girls like the one you describe–good people with jai dee (good heart). In fact, this description describes most of the TG’s I have met.
Most of the working TG’s I have met all dream the dream of just meeting a nice guy who they can settle down with, have kids with, make a life with, and get old with. In other words, they all would like to Long Ball if they could.
Sure they are “working” but they are doing it only because they come from a disadvantaged background and Thai society doesn’t give girls unfortunate enough to be born in their circumstances many paths to a decent life.
Marrying a farang or even being a farang’s girlfriend is about the only path to a better life (even if it is temporary) for them and meeting farangs costs money they don’t have–hence the girls are “working”.
The girls are working because the supply of farang’s available for boyfriend or husband duty is far far far outstripped by the supply of TG’s looking for one.
TG’s are working because the third best is the best they can do (first best is getting married and second best is having a boyfriend who “takes care” of them).
View all comments by BigBabyKenny
Really great blog. Some of the finer points were spot on and I am happly surprised to read a thoughtful piece by an excellent writer. I esoecially like the references to poker as the TG game is so obviously similar. Also one of the things I love most about the Bangkok bar scene is that each bar has its own atmosphere. Some guys just like to point and shoot, so they go to Rainbow. Some guys like chatting up gals so they go to beer bars or freelancer places. Some guys like tall, light skinned gals so they go to local places. Your refernce to the guys who moan the most most likely looking for a long ball gasl in a short ball place is very insightful!
View all comments by Khun Leigh
“Hows a girl to survive!” ????
Bottom line is the bitch wont be there for you if you have no money, if the girl was in love or in a REAL relationship, she wouldn’t be asking for money in return so that she can “survive”.
View all comments by MoneyMoneyMoney
Regarding Akane: I’ve been lots of times to the sukh. soi 33 branch. But i never took the “complete service” i.e. when they stick their fingers up your ass (rimming or something…). I do not like these kinds of things and I suppose you have to be at least a little bit gay to enjoy these things.
View all comments by Ato
Yup. Anything coming in or going out of your ass makes you gay. Sure.
Pop quiz: Which part of your anatomy has the most nerve endings (pleasure receptors)? Penis or ass? Choose carefully now…
View all comments by TAFKABBB
ato - i can assure you i am not even a tad bit gay and I don’t mind that type of service. Maybe this is something you are struggling with but not me.
View all comments by smitty
smitty is struggling with a blurred keyboard right now.
View all comments by Pants Elk
pe - yeah. huge brain mixup there but thanks. late night.
View all comments by smitty
Ato,
I am not a big massage fan. At one point I have been to a couple of the other places on Soi 33 BKKteen and Teen massage but they have too many farang customers so the service is weak, they are kind of dirty, and the girl’s skillsets are not large.
The Japanese places are so much