Wow folks. What a crazy turn of events - seems Thaksin is calling it a day. I have been feeling for some time that he would pack it in and realize that his insistence on staying in the country would just mean the country would continue to falter. Based on the latest court action it seems that the guilt was starting to pile up and the Olympics was the perfect get out of Thailand free card. My guess is this was all brokered and agreed upon with the Royalty and the current government since if they wanted him to stay they would have never let him go. Personally - I think this is good for the country and may allow some form of reform to set in without most of the government time being spent on defending corrupt practices and botched elections. But hell - what do I know but I don’t think he will be back for some time.
First freelancer party was a success and we will be posting some pics soon. Promise.
Love this flack about Madonna and her pub.
Lots of other action going on in the world of Thai politics but this move by the powers that be to remove the central bank governor is pretty silly. I was not with her agenda regarding the capital controls but I think she is right to focus on the interest rates and her work to fight inflation. Why the current government thinks that a silly stimulus plan will help is beyond me. Seems to me that fighting inflation, stupid tourism rules, foreign direct investment issues and the archaic work permit rules could do a lot to pump some action into this country.
Some blog info. We are going to revamp the readers submission page or may even get rid of it since all the authors are listed on every page in the sidebar. We have modified the author archives and they are much easier to deal with in my opinion.
Here is an example of all the Pattaya Ghost archives:
http://www.2thebigmango.com/author/pattayaghost/
Also pretty much all of Bangkok Bad Boy’s back content is online and edited.
http://www.2thebigmango.com/author/bbb/
These author archive links will give u all the posts ordered by date with the most recent posts being at the top.
We will keep moving the blog to be as community oriented as possible - meaning as much participation as we can by others to generate content. I think it is more interesting and a better view of all that goes on around us. Of course this also creates interesting issues and can lead to some form of group degenerative comment hell. U all know what I mean, but we will do our best to only post quality stuff and we will continue to delete comments that just don’t add anything. We do it already - u just may not know it.
Given this I found some interesting articles about the rise of publicness and the general consensus of the crowd or google effect. First article is this:
The internet doesn’t make us more creative, I don’t think. But it does enable what we create to be seen, heard, and used. It enables every creator to find a public, the public he or she merits. And that takes creation out of the proprietary hands of the supposed creative class.
I can’t say I agree with the article as a whole but it does get me thinking. There is also a nice rebuttal to this over here:
Most people are stupid, and the Googlenet hasn’t changed that. The wisdom of crowds isn’t wise, it tends to the lowest common denominator. You don’t get popularity in the Googlenet by saying things that are intelligent or insightful, you do by showing naked women in various states of compromise and by inflaming the emotions in other equally manipulative ways. So this commentary simply ignores these truths of human nature.
Anyway - all interesting food for thought.
We are not sure on bar closings for Mother’s Day but so far I have not seen any official letters or memos.
It’s Monday - time to party.
It sure is party time in the market today. Thaksin goes, SET powers up. Happy days & big bonus!
View all comments by MSB
Whoah there chief, not quite
The first year of content is fixed (May ‘06 - Apr ‘07), although we still have lots of integration to do with The Guide - that’s where all the reviews will eventually end up.
Still lots of links to fix though - basically, if you notice that you can’t comment on one of my pieces, it means it’s not done yet.
On the Thaksin front, I think the only surprise is that he’s in London rather than Hong Kong. When his kids were crying last week waving him off at the airport, it was pretty obvious he’d be away for more than a few days.
Like I said last time, I think he should be allowed to stay in London.
But only for 30 days, after which he should be forced to go on a border run to Wales in a minibus full of English teachers, and after 90 days of that he should have to return to Thailand to apply for a new visa…
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
It makes sense right - the markets see Thaksin as a cloud over the idea of moving forward so by him taking himself out it would seem the country has a clearer picture of how to move forward?
View all comments by sideshowBOB
bbb - sorry. I meant a lot of it.
nice idea on the visa run but somehow I think he can sort it all out given his cash horde.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
apparently he’s leaving behind around 69 billion in cash that’s been frozen in various accounts in Thailand? If so, that works out to about 1,000 baht per citizen! Perhaps the government will distribute it as part of a bush-inspired stimulus plan?
i agree that tarisa isn’t all that bad - good to see that she’s willing to excercise some independent judgement from the finance ministry. isn’t (wasn’t) one of the deputy finance ministers a former nurse with absolutely zero experience? i vaguely remember someone being quoted along the lines of “i’m excited about my new job at the ministry and will actively consult the internet to figure out what we do”.
View all comments by generous sponsor
Yeah, even to someone sitting several thousand miles away this was a complete no-brainer. The guy came back to Thailand with his party in power thinking they would roll right over the judiciary and he would soon be sitting in power. But then the judiciary woke up and all of a sudden his wife is looking at 3 years in a Thai prison and his lawyers are caught on tape trying to bribe judges. Not a good place to be.
Also have to agree that his departure was 100% agreed upon in advance. Where in the world do they let a convict awaiting appeal to travel outside the country? There was no state function for them in Beijing. They are civilians.
They negotiated a get out of jail card in return for getting out of Thailand and saving the country the dishonor of having to convict a former PM of corruption. It saves the country a lot of hassle and international grief and Thanksin gets to sip tea while watching Man City from his owner box. Not a bad deal all the way around.
View all comments by Billy Bangkok
“Visa run to Wales …”
BWA-HA-HA-HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Your funniest joke.
View all comments by BigBadBabyBillyBangkokBoy
gs - we covered that here:
http://www.2thebigmango.com/main/2008/03/22/when-reality-is-dumber-than-anything-you-could-possibly-make-up/
bb - yup. u know this was all organized. I started sensing this when the king told the judges to get with the program. There convicting the wifey to 3 years was the shot over the bow - meaning yes if u stay here u will do time. Then for sure they got together and made a deal. Good stuff.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
also - as I understand it the team is owned in the name of his son - not Thaksin himself. That should tell u something about his own view of himself in regards to being guilty or not.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
The Nation said in their Thaksin Exile story
“I may be not a perfect man but I reaffirm that I am as bad as some accused of being. If good fortune were on my side I would like to return to Thailand and die there like all other Thai people.”
A lot of people agree.
It is a good job he confirmed there were no extra-judicial killings in Thailand, or he may have got asylum somewhere.
View all comments by atmcharlie
@atmcharlie: Oh, it’s delicious, isn’t it?
Of course, after the 2006 coup, the UK were not prepared to extradite Thaksin to face charges, since they didn’t want to be seen to be legitamising the military government.
Now that Thailand is under pure democratic rule (no vote-buying here, no sirree!), an extradition request ought to be seriously considered.
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
Oh, leave him alone! Hasn’t he suffered enough? Just because he massacred a few hundred unarmed peasants in the south - and who cares about *them* - and stole a few billion baht, everyone’s got it in for the guy! Would YOU want to live in the UK?
View all comments by BigBadBabyBillyBangkokBoy
Reports are already on the wires that arrest warrants have been issued. If that’s true, I think you can retire the this-was-all-agreed-to-by-the-palace-and-the-military conspiracy theories. On the contrary, issuing arrest warrants would make it pretty clear that the royalists think they have won a big victory and, as Thais almost always do, that they have lost no time in overplaying their hand.
The right wing should be pleased as hell that they have finally gutted any real threat to the continuation of the nearly fifty year old campaign by the military and the palace to shut down representative government in Thailand. But can we expect the winners just celebrate and be done with it? Nope, of course not. As Thais so often do, it looks like they can’t resist trying to pile on when they think they’re on the winning side.
So now what, smart guys? You demand that the UK extradite Mr. and Mrs. Satan? If the UK refuses, they would no doubt do so on the basis on political persecution and you all would end up looking like jerks to the rest of the world. Worse, if the UK should actually agree to the extradition and you actually do get him back, then will have to put him on trial. That outcome would destroy the country and just about serve these political geniuses right…..
View all comments by Old Asia Hand
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
It seems a far reach for the UK to deny extradition if there is an extradition treaty. It’s pretty clear Thaksin came back in february to defend himself, thinking that nothing would ever come of it. When the hammer finally fell he realised he needed to get out of dodge because he would be next. What a pu**y. Seriously can you say coward?
As far as getting approval, I find it hard to belive that after the conviction of his wife and with their financial resources that they would be allowed to leave the country unless approval came from high up. I’m sure that russian arms dealer would have liked to go to the olympics and cheers on his homeland, would they let him go or that drug dealer from Samui who just got busted? What a farce!
View all comments by bkk22
And there is indeed an extradition treaty - the 1911 UK-Siam Extradition Treaty.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/dfat/treaties/1911/9.html
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
A bit off topic but of extreme importance: are bars required to close Aug 12, Queens b-day?
View all comments by But Different
@OAH: I’m not big on conspiracies but I called this the second I heard he was being allowed to leave the country.
I don’t know how he got approval nor do I care about the mechanics of whether or not the royals gave it a thumbs up or he bribed some judge but letting a convicted person awating appeal to leave the country is pretty strange. Somebody pretty high up had to approve that and if I knew Thaksin and his wife were going to take a runner then I’m pretty sure whoever authorized it had a pretty good clue that it was a very real possibility.
I mean, what was the purpose of his trip? He holds no official position in the government. His previous requests to travel had been denied but they approved this one after his wife is convicted and things are looking pretty bleak for him?
View all comments by Billy Bangkok
I have no specific knowledge of the extradition treaty between the UK and Thailand, but it is common practice for all such treaties to include as one of the grounds for denial of extradition a determination by the country receiving the request that its basis is not actually the true pursuit of a criminal offense, but rather a political prosecution. That is a determination I am sure the UK would rather not make since, manifestly, in this case both elements are clearly part of the prosecution.
Maybe, now that Thailand has issued the arrest warrants, the right wing will foam at the mouth for a while about going to the ends of the earth to bring Satan back to Thailand, but they will somehow just never get around to transmitting the warrants formally to the UK and asking for extradition. Then nothing will ever happen. That would certainly be an outcome consistent with Thai culture, wouldn’t it?
View all comments by Old Asia Hand
The most qualified man to run the country has left the building.
Best leader they have had in decades. Now, he is gone.
Thailand thrived while Thaksin was in office.
Did the best he could in a corrupt system. Made some mistakes. I give him a B+.
The stock market may jump this week but then.. look out. Corruption is rampant.. the place is going into the toilet…..Military, Police, Bigshots Mafia types fighting over the spoils..robbing the country blind..might even resemble Burma after the King passes.
A majority of Thais still support Thaksin and will want their CEO back!.
This story is not over.
View all comments by Kilgore Trout
Mr. Trout,
A big amen on that from me, brother. When the right wing sobers up, even they are going to start wondering exactly how they ever saw this as good news.
View all comments by Old Asia Hand
Interesting quote from the FT:
His parting swipe at the judicial system in defiance of rigidly enforced contempt of court laws means he will not be able to return for a long time, analysts said.
”He has defamed the court, and so he’s gone for good,” Thaksin biographer and political analyst Chris Baker said.
”He is quite an emotional fellow, and he has lashed out very often in the past,” he added. ”My guess is that over the last few weeks and months, he’s splashed out a lot of money to try and get himself out of this, and it’s failed, and he’s very angry
View all comments by Billy Bangkok
I’d say this article reveals a big piece of the puzzle.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7535507.stm
Here’s a slice of it
“On 26 April 2006 the king summoned the heads of the three senior courts to his palace in the seaside resort of Hua Hin, and told them it was their job to resolve the political crisis.
It would be unconstitutional, he said, for him to choose a prime minister. But he also hinted that any parliament in which the opposition was not represented could not be legitimate.
The judges took the hint. Within days the Constitutional Court did what no-one thought it would dare do.
It annulled an election in which Mr Thaksin’s party had won a clear majority. This turned the tables decisively against him, leading five months later to the military coup that finally unseated him”
View all comments by wenthworth
Old Asia Hand, I’d agree with you that he was a dynamic leader, full of ideas that he managed to put into action, and he was good for the working people (of Issan, especially). But I’d say that because I use the BTS and the airport, and I’m left-of-centre (at least according to my tailor). But if I lived in Tak Bai and had had my family shot down in cold blood on his orders, my mileage may differ. He was, at heart, a crook, and a greedy one (is there any other kind?). If he’d have paid his taxes, he’d still be a player. He believed himself to be above the law, which is why he came back for his trial in the first place.
I also agree he was the best chance Thailand had, which is pretty damning.
View all comments by BigBadBabyBillyBangkokBoy
Re Manchester City
Billy Bangkok wrote
“It saves the country a lot of hassle and international grief and Thanksin gets to sip tea while watching Man City from his owner box. Not a bad deal all the way around”.
Sideshow Bob” (or is it Smitty, what’s been going on here?) wrote
“I think he can sort it all out given his cash horde.”
Manchester City are currently in turmoil, they have (allegedly) been selling players without the knowledge of the (new) manager. They had a game over the weekend where one of the players did not show up to the stadium play in the game, because he thought he had already been sold to Sunderland, when the manger called him to find out why he was not at the stadium the lad was shopping with his girlfriend!!! and this is not the only player that has (allegedly) been sold, I am told Tottenham have also purchased a player.
The manager has threatened to resign over the sales and they have now been cancelled, however I am hearing that the Tottenham sale, from a legal perspective, has gone too far and City will have to proceed or will end up in court. Book makers in the UK have now stopped taking bets on Mark Hughes (the new City manager) being the first Premiership manager to leave/loose his employment in the new season (all this and a ball has not yet been kicked).
Meanwhile further rumours abound that the club is up for sale. This is probably understandable now that his political/Thailand future looks to be in tatters (at least for the short term) Thaksin no longer has use for Manchester City, he seems to have no emotional involvement with the club and there is no PR or “face” to be made from owning it. Indeed (to me) it looks like a money pit with little hope winning any silverware.
I’m no so sure about his horde as he seems to be on a selling spree, and he would less popular in the blue half of Manchester, than he is in BKK at the moment, looks like tea will be off the menu.
For me? Well I find it amusing up to a point, as I am from the red half of the city, there are a lot of very worried Man City fans around here at the moment.
View all comments by Spyker
@ BigBadBabyBillyBangkokBoy & Old Asia Hand
I agree, to a point with what you say.
I think I have made this comment here before. He did a lot of good things for people up country, not least by providing clean water and building roads and communications networks. It is true that the people there want him back and would vote for him tomorrow (understandably).
But can he possibly have been the best long term chance for Thailand? Given his record and seeming lack of principles lets hope not.
View all comments by Spyker
“The right wing should be pleased as hell that they have finally gutted any real threat to the continuation of the nearly fifty year old campaign by the military and the palace to shut down representative government in Thailand.”
An odd comment I think.
Thaksin was a democratically elected PM who was ousted by a military coup after months of street demonstrations by the PAD.
The current democratically elected government is shaky after being attacked repeatedly by the PAD.
What are the stated politics of the PAD?
Replace the proportional representation in the parliment under the current constitution with a body in which the majority of the seats are appointed.
Put the military under the control of the King, rather than the civilian government.
Institutionalize military coups by writing language into the constitution which outlines the conditions under which the military would be expected to overthrow the elected government.
The greatest hope of healthy representative government in Thailand has just disappeared from the scene, and the greatest threat to representative government since 1932 — the strongest proponent of military and royal power to exist in the past 15 years — the PAD is currently winning the battle against the real proponents of democracy in Thailand.
I don’t necessarily think this is a bad thing. I don’t think democracy is for everyone. Thailand doesn’t really seem to know what to do with democracy.
I’m with Kilgore Trout and OAH… Thaksin was the most qualified man to control Thailand politically and move it forward. The events of the past three years are a complete tragedy for Thailand.
View all comments by Werewolf
Yeah, I much prefered it when innocent children were being summarily executed in the streets. What a hero.
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
Of all the jobs in the world I wouldn’t want, running Thailand’s central bank would rank down around Casanova bar fluffer or Long Gun ping pong ball fetch boy. If inflation is over 9% in a manufacturing economy, that economy better be growing at 14% or more or I’d be REALLY worried about inflation. But fighting inflation doesn’t win elections, so if you’re running the monetary policy for that country you’re screwed. Rough job.
Any chance to get highlights of the FL party?
View all comments by tosh
Well i got chatted up by Thaksins son in Paragon a few weeks back. Stick that in your political pipe and smoke it.
Shame I didnt know who he was until he left. FUCK
View all comments by Young Penfold
(my reaction to thaksin news on aust tv) “ha ha hee hee, dont care, umm good, what comes around goes around”
View all comments by Ms Carpet
“Yeah, I much prefered it when innocent children were being summarily executed in the streets. What a hero.
BBB: While this is a mildly witty comment about a tragic situation from the recent past, it says nothing about a better way forward. Clearly you don’t believe Thaksin is the answer… what/who is?
The players seem to me to limited to a small group, none of whom I would choose above Thaksin to lead the country. I’d dearly love to have a better option. What’s your answer?
View all comments by Werewolf
@WW: Anyone who isn’t a mass murderer is a better option as head of state, in my opinion.
I’d personally like to see the Abhisit and the Democrats get a chance. Perhaps one day, when sufficient of Mr T’s assets have been seized, the Democrats will be able to compete on the vote-buying front enough to actually have a chance of gaining power. Until then, no chance.
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
spyker - the money comment was not about the football. as to the football team - just shows u football is not really about the sport anymore. sure - Thaksin bought the team for fame and as a PR stunt and it is not working the way he planned. Shame on England for selling him the team to begin with but oh well.
The money comment was about him having what he needs to avoid jail. I hardly think he left town without it being agreed upon. I see it like this:
Thaksin+wifey - we should go now. Maybe the Olympics honey?
Thaksin+wifey - calls powers that be - hey guys we are going to leave now. cool?
Powersthatbe - sure. we an say u r going to the olympics - did u transfer the money yet?
T+W - money in.
P- cool. we will issue arrest warrants right after u leave to make it look like we did not know u might leave and seek exile.
T+W - perfect. so sly
View all comments by sideshowBOB
Abhisit it is then. Clearly a good thinker… my concern from a LEADERSHIP standpoint is that he lacks charisma (no doubt you’ll see this as ‘lacks money’).
I think he’s the clearest thinking high profile politician in Thailand, but not the strongest leader.
I’m not sure how many people around the world lead a national government without becoming mass murderers at some point. My guess is that it’s less than 50% though.
View all comments by Werewolf
“Shame on England for selling him the team to begin with but oh well”
What makes me laugh (or cringe) is the fact that the Football Association have a system in place to stop the type of people who’s wealth has been accumulated through criminal means from becoming owners / directors.
The “Fit and Proper Persons Regulations”…………
http://www.thefa.com/NR/rdonlyres/8CCD0746-2915-498E-9779-A4EDD39A0B5D/120666/FitAndProperPersons_regs.pdf
If you ignore all the legal gubbins and scroll down to page 12, there begins the list of offences covered by the regulations. Now, i’m no expert on Thaksin, his political party or his regime when he was in power, but I get the impression that he must tick a few of those boxes? The point is, that with no convictions against the guy, the FA are seemingly powerless.
View all comments by ShanghaiChris
There’ll be no real changes until the King dies - on that day, all bets are off.
View all comments by Pants Elk
@ssB: Oh, I’m sure he’s a few steps ahead. The bilateral treaty specifically allows extradition on the grounds of “[e]mbezzlement or larceny”, so I guess he must be relying on an asylum bid or something. And of course, if it ever looks like extradition might actually happen, he’ll skip to China, which has no such treaty.
@WW: Sure, Bush and Blair (for example) signed the death warrants of thousands of their own troops, plus tens if not hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians whose only crime was to be born at the wrong geographical co-ordinates.
Not many order the execution without trial of their own citizens (voters!) though.
@ShanghaiChris: This might interest you:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2008/aug/12/manchestercity.premierleague1
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
Kilgore Trout — While what you say is often the convention wisdom and sounds good when you first read it / say it, it doesn’t stand up to scrutnity.
It’s easy to spend money on people and projects in Issan when you have no reard for the budget. Under Thaksin Thaialnd run up record budget deficits that are now hamstringing the country’s ability to fight an economic slowdown and inflation. His “war on drugs” showed little regard for human life and his approach in the south saw the worst period of violnce there. (The last few months overall have been relatively peaceful in comparison.)
Thaksin was someone who wore the mask of the CEO while trampling over human rights, paying blindly out of the country’s coffers to buy votes and using his position to enrich himself and his family more blantantly and wontonly than any other recent leader. His complete disregard for the law, arrogance and lack of concern for anyone else but himself was his downfall.
As for the Central Bank minister, she was a loony who has been running dangerous negative “real interest rates” for most of the past four years. See Thailand Crisis for a real evaluation of her policies.
As for the afternath? Bangkok Pundit today has a great summary of two pieces out of Matichon Weekly, which often sets the convention wisdom among the media, saying that the PPP is fracturing into two distinct camps: the Thaksin and After-Thaksin groups. Now that Wacky Tacky is gone, his relatives will be removed from power, the military loyal to him will be sent to inactive posts and the PPP will eventually split with about 100 MPs each, with one group forming a new government with the Democrats.
An interesting read:
http://bangkokpundit.blogspot.com/2008/08/gang-of-four-and-ppp-infighting.html
View all comments by Pattaya Ghost
“I would like to return to Thailand and die”.
I love it when a plan comes together.
View all comments by Nok Opayop
BBB: Massacring your own citizens (Pol Pot, Stalin, etc) to secure your political position is the most common reason for the extrajudicial killing of your own citizens.
Thaksin’s stated motive (and I believe his real motive as well) was a ‘war on drugs’. Presumably the killing of drug dealers without need for evidence and trial would become a huge deterrent, thus creating a better society overall in which the loss of certain rights for the drug dealers would be traded for a drug free environment, meaning that a lot of the ills that go along with the drugs would go away as well.
So goes the theory anyway.
A few children killed in the process just falls under the heading of collateral damage.
I met an agent for the Dept of Special Investigations here in Thailand who defended Thaksin’s war on drugs and the collateral damage to children as a small price to pay for the highly effective result.
I think the idea sounds pretty appealing… trade the rights of some low lifes for a better world for the rest of us. I think one of the better modern novels around is CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER from Tom Clancy.
THe president of the US signs an order identifying drug cartels as a clear and present danger to the US, thus legitimizing war against them. A secret war is launched against the Columbian drug cartels.
At the beginning of the book it’s easy to shout ‘hooray’ for the good guy as you see the hobbles taken off and the drug dealers severely damaged.
Gradually though — and perhaps inevitably — the wheels come off and things start to go wrong, including collateral damage (the death of innocent children).
Especially coming from an author with the obvious right-wing leanings of Clancy I think this is an interesting morality tale that speaks against the suspension of due process and all the other protections that most of us enjoy.
View all comments by Werewolf
pg wrote: “Thaksin was someone who wore the mask of the CEO while trampling over human rights, paying blindly out of the country’s coffers to buy votes and using his position to enrich himself and his family more blantantly and wontonly than any other recent leader. His complete disregard for the law, arrogance and lack of concern for anyone else but himself was his downfall.”
Spot on. I really don’t understand the earlier comments saying he is the best leader this country has or rather had. What a load. He is probably the worst leader this country could ever have given the monarchy rule. The Ghost’s quote above is irrefutable pretty much so how can one say he is the best leader for this country. Absurd.
Unfortunately in Thailand you are respected for getting away with stuff. “Wow, that guy is smart, he was able to steal billions of dollars and buy an English Premier Football team. You gotta respect that.” seems to be a popular opinion.
Good riddance to him and his evil family. I hope he gets what’s coming to him.
“I was not involved and know nothing about it” - Quote from Thaksin after hearing that his lawyers were convicted of bribery in the lunch box bribery case a month or so back. What a guy.
View all comments by pmmp
Thaksin Shmaksin… Will bars be open tonight or not?
View all comments by BabaBobo
As far as I know, the bars are open. One Thai bar owner I spoke to last night says that the Queen likes people to go out and enjoy themselves. He is a well connected man too.
View all comments by AUK
Bars are open tonight last I heard.
View all comments by pmmp
Aren’t we missing the point?
Who wants a leader who can make the trains run on time and economy hum (extra judicial slayings or not)?
The BeSt p*ssy in this GrEaT country was (widely) available directly AFTER the ‘97 crash.
Which, though, besides the point, coincides with this boy’s newly minted blue passport getting the first of what are now more than 20+ entrance stamps (boy, did I rack ‘em up 98-03).
The point being we need, and need badly, a leader who can drive the ship of state into the ground, and do it presently no less, and get the baht down to, say, 45 per.
Can someone more in the know get G. Soros on the line and see who’s on HIS short list?
View all comments by jack dawson
You would think Thailand (and other countries as well) would learn from those countries which are successful in controlling drug problems instead of emulating those which are not. In other words, how’s that “War Against {insert your cause du jure here}” in the U.S.A. been going for the past xx years?
There are better models for dealing with the drug problem. But with Thailand being such a close ally of the U.S. government, what else is to be expected?
In my opinion, the corruption in Thaksin’s administration and TRT was no worse or better than the P.M. before him or the current one. He had astronomical amounts of money to toss at his “problems” and because of that reason alone was more effective in accomplishing his goals. All would have ended well for the Thaksin household since even with the military tossing him out of the country his candidate of choice was elected P.M., but he seriously miscalculated the extent to which the King would wield his influence and it was game over.
The Thais create and change political party affiliations faster than Young Penfold can pick up a ladyboy at NEP closing on Friday. When the dynamics of political parties are so dynamic and unstable and that is combined with the, how should I put it, “institutionalized norms of integrity in Thai society” (http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2008/08/08/opinion/opinion_30080069.php) what else should we expect the outcome to be?
View all comments by Bubba
It’s interesting to read how Thaksin even polarises the opinions of the farangs, its little wonder the Thais (as a nation) are so conflicted.
The king, the military, and the politicians need to learn to let the people decide and, for better or for worse stick with that decision.
Whilst the decisions of the people are over-ridden by the authorities, no lessons will be learned by the electorate. The statement that countries get the governments that they deserve holds out, but if these governments never run full term the full implications of the election results are never seen an felt and the people who voted the miscreants in, never get the opportunity the directly vote them out. They are therefore never held to account and their “myths” are allowed to propagate.
PantsElk makes an interesting observation
“There’ll be no real changes until the King dies - on that day, all bets are off”
I agree with that statement. Everyone has relied upon the king to be the voice of reason and an arbitrator, but when he has gone there will be no one to fill the void. Over time no lessons have been learnt and the country will be in a worse position than before.
View all comments by Spyker
On a lighter note, just going back to the football thing again, the English Premier League is now a money game as much as a football game (if not more so), Cities dash for cash was a short-sighted attempt to catch near neighbours (Man U) by emulating the Chelsea model (albeit on a lesser scale).
There might be lessons for Chelsea in what’s going on at City with Thaksin.
View all comments by Spyker
@ WW - perhaps a good idea in theory, suspending due process for people we know are bad guys, though maybe not. However, what happens when it’s not a ‘war on drugs’ but a ‘war on literature?’ Or a ‘war on cartoons some people fine offensive?’ Both have happened. And why, if these are all ‘low lifes’ who the cops know are drug dealers, don’t the cops arrest them, try them, and send them to jail?
View all comments by tosh
Good point Tosh. Many of these “drug dealers” were labelled such out of convenience and were no such thing, more likely they were inconvenient people for Mr Thaksin and his cronies.
More than 20 environmental campaigners were murdered during Thaksin’s time; none of these murders was ever solved!
View all comments by Nok Opayop
tosh: I believe if you re-read my comment again you’ll see that I was saying that suspension of due process is a really bad idea. It can only have bad consequences.
View all comments by Werewolf
nok - some very prominent human rights lawyers also were never found - good people trying to defend the silly notion of the law and a reasonable right to defense. The wives and the children of these missing people pay the ultimate price for the years of a dictator spent in office.
Thaksin may have done some good things but no way in hell can one add the score card up and point to more good being done than bad. The very fact that he flees further enforces his guilt in my opinion. Yes - there is a struggle between the royalty, the military and a fledgling democracy. It is a shame that Thaksin used his turn at the wheel of democracy for more bad than good.
I guess this is too be expected given that it is not really a democracy here and their is a much broader struggle going on but I think Thaksin leaving is better than him staying.
View all comments by sideshowBOB
This paragraph from the Bangkok Post seems to me to be an odd analysis of the political fallout from Thaksin’s departure:
This paragraph from a different story strikes me as a more accurate assessment of the fallout:
View all comments by Werewolf