From a blogging perspective you could say it all started here - with this post:
http://www.2thebigmango.com/main/2006/03/26/so-many-questions/
I needed to get back to writing, playing with technology, sharing our experiences and connecting with people for purposes of running a better bar. That was the point. Sure it has grown into cutting edge political analysis, reader submissions, the occasional weekly, nightlife coverage, and a stunning amount of commenting by all of our readers. It has been great fun and even pmmp caught the Wordpress bug and created some cool guides - this one and this one.
All this aside though - this blog was always about sharing with you our experiences in starting the Big Mango Bar. So now we will use this space to tell you about the new Big Mango Bar.
This will be a longer post than usual but it is too important not to explain things as much as possible.
Let’s rewind a little bit since some of you may not know the whole story. There was never a plan to move to Bangkok and open a bar in Nana Plaza. It all just kind of happened. I was living in Hong Kong and pmmp was living in India. Bangkok become the easiest place for us to meet, party and scheme about what we might do if we both decided to bail on the corporate world and make a go of things on our own.
Of course the plan was to come to Thailand but to do what? Honestly we had no idea but we decided to get started by at least registering a company we could use to start or buy whatever we decided to do. We formed an Amity company and started looking around for possible franchises, businesses and so on. During this process we were told of a bar for sale in Nana Plaza. We had spent plenty of time in Nana, I won’t tell u which bar, and we naively thought we knew enough to give it a go. Wow. Wake up call.
So we did buy a bar and we set about building the Big Mango.
We had never ran a bar before, we did not speak Thai and we honestly were not aware of all we needed to know to run a business in Thailand. However that made it exciting enough to carry on. All we really wanted to build is what we wished Nana had but did not. A decent place to grab a bite, watch the game, play some pool, chat with the ladies and hopefully meet new friends. From my vantage point it worked and despite what others have said - we left Nana because the place is poorly managed, the rents are too high and we wanted to evolve past the confines of the plaza.
Fast forward and we are getting close to opening up the new Mango. Planning for June 1 but I won’t etch it on a calendar with my own blood - not just yet. But I do think it is time to tell you what we plan on doing with this bar that will be different than the old Mango - possibly different than what anyone is doing in Bangkok.
pmmp and I will both admit that managing bargirls, if that is what you want to call it, is not a fun part of the biz. There are many reasons for that and I won’t get into it here, but it is side of the biz I can do without. I am not saying I don’t like bars with girls but I don’t like having to constantly oversee them.
However this is not the general crux for change - I think Thailand is constantly evolving and the bars, the girls and the customers have to move along with the changes. It is impossible to stop this process. We want to contribute to this process and hopefully change the bar game a bit and offer customers something new.
Will it work? Not sure yet but we feel pretty strongly about it.
Will it take some time to get it right and work out the kinks? Yes - so please bear with us.
I for one love the freelancer scene - meaning the marketplace of girls who don’t actually work for a bar but are available for p4p action. From what I can tell the freelancer scene just keeps growing and the lines are getting grayer with the current worldwide economic malaise. Meaning - non bargirls are increasingly resorting to p4p action to make ends meet.
Given that I love the freelancer scene I will add that there is not a freelancer bar that I really dig. Before anyone jumps on me here - I am not saying there are not good freelancer bars out there but they are not quite to my liking. Just like a good engineer tends to build things he thinks the world has not given him - pmmp and I are trying to build a bar that Bangkok so far has not given us.
So the new Big Mango will not have bargirls. It will be a freelancer venue. We will have waitresses, bartenders, cooks, cashiers, and so on but no bargirls. For some of you this may be a letdown but I can tell you we never had a lot of barfines and we think we can do better than the old Mango. Okay. Freelancer. What does that mean actually?
I also want to say that this is not a me too direction or something we just decided to do. We actually had plans to do this in the old Mango but decided against it given the reception we thought we might get by other bar owners in Nana and the feeling that we needed more time to craft the strategy.
When I look at some of the other freelancer bars, not all, I see a couple of things I don’t like. The bars tend to be just a little too plain or boring. No sports, no music, no aircon, no wifi, no food and so on. Sure they may be amazing places to find girls but they are not fun bars to hang out in. Just that simple.
The other side of the freelancer coin is one that I find so simple but yet profound - none of the so called freelancer bars do anything for the freelancers - the girls working the scene. Sure they let them come into the venue and ply their trade but they don’t do anything to help the girls or encourage the girls to choose a particular venue over another venue. Yes - girls go where the customers are but customers go where the girls are. Chicken and egg discussions will proliferate but you gotta start somewhere.
This is where it is starting.
We want to give back to the girls so that they will favor our bar and in the long run create a better atmosphere for everyone. I also want to add that I think the definition of a freelancer is blurry and we plan on graying the edges further and work to attract not just the girls on the circuit but the girls in salons, shopping malls and so on. Let’s face it - most Thai girls like to meet people, have some drinks and party.
Let’s also face it - isn’t fresh meat a good thing?
This is not a definitive list and it may change but here are some of the things we plan on doing for the girls:
- a discount card. for drinks and food. why? most girls cannot afford what you and I regularly pay when we go drinking and eating. girls have to factor this in when deciding where to go. we want to help them make this decision
- free internet terminals. girls spend money going to the internet shops reading email, connecting with me on tagged and chatting with the overseas sponsors. we want to save them some money and have them hanging around in the mango using our computers. For an example I know some girls regularly spend 20-40 baht per day. Some I talk to do this everyday. Some girls are easily spending 600-1000 baht a month on using the internet.
- english classes. we will be working with empower to use the new location as another location for them to teach english. this will take some time but we have already started on the process.
- medical clinic. we are working with empower and a few others to try and get a relationship going with a local clinic so we have a place to encourage the girls to go to for regular checkups. not sure we can enforce it but we are looking for ways to try and encourage it and possibly track it. this one is proving to be a trickier and I can go into why but will save it for now.
- freelancer helpdesk. we will be employing a girl full-time who will help us market to the freelancers, liaise with them and offer whatever assistance we can to them. translating emails, dealing with problems and so on come to mind. point being is we want to help where we can and we need someone to be the face of the Big Mango for the girls.
Example of the freelancer member card - not finalized but getting close:
That is the general list. I don’t know of any freelancer bars doing anything quite like this. I also know it won’t be easy but we think worthwhile.
What will this mean to customers of the Big Mango?
We think it means you will have a place to eat, use the wifi, use the computers, watch a game, play pool, drink and hang out in an environment where girls from all sectors might also be hanging around doing the same things in hopes of meeting guys and having fun.
Yes - we have to prime the pump and it will take time but we are making plans now for a freelancer party, marketing all over town to the girls, and laying the groundwork with empower.
I think this direction shows promise and we hope it makes for an exciting addition to the Bangkok bar scene.
stay tuned…
Impressive list of ideas. I really admire that kind of analysis of an existing situation and working on putting new solutions together.
On top of that your reasoning seems sound across the board- its easy to go down a slippery slope of unrealistic goals when being unique but it looks like you’re avoiding that (although maybe casting the net a bit wide).
Best of luck, I hope to see it this summer.
View all comments by R9
r9 - thanks for the kind words.
Can u explain the casting the net a bit wide comment? just curious.
View all comments by smitty
I like your out of the box thinking! Creating an environment which benefits both parties is a win win solution and is sure go establish a loyal following! Btw…Long time reader here, first time responder! Love your blog!
View all comments by bkkpartyboy
Smitty,
Feel like I know you guys a bit from reading your blog. Haven’t been in Bangkok since the tsunami. Maybe I’m pussy-whipped but the girlfriend threatens to leave every time I mention returning. I’ll deal with it and see you before long…
Anyway, your idea of encouraging freelancers to frequent your bar by offering various services sounds awesome! It’s thrilling to think I might buy a t-shirt from some sexy Robinson’s girl only to later run into her at the Big Mango - Ha! Congratulations on having such foresight. You could become more famous than the Thermae!
View all comments by HopeToReturnSoon
Very nicely done. Identify the problem, figure out a solution and continue to improve the model as needed when the plan is implemented. I know a few CEOs who would do well to follow this type of thinking.
In terms of the medical clinic, what about offering a bigger discount on F&B if the checkups are recent and up to date? Say another 5% or 10% as opposed to the regular discount. Just a thought.
Anyway, good luck with the new opening and hope to get over there before the summer is over.
View all comments by The Asian Badger
bkk - thanks for reading and commenting.
hope - come on over and thanks for the comments. We hope the model will work but it will be fun to try either way.
ab - what u offer is a good idea but tough to implement. right now the focus is on the awareness, a relationship and hopefully a discount at a specific clinic. tracking and enforcement or reward system will have to come later if it is possible. get your ass over…
View all comments by smitty
I like the way you go for the grey area that that’s been at the centre of so much hot debate these past couple of days.
Creating a magnet for foreigner-friendly girls from all walks of life is 21st century pimping baby. The girls get a safe, lucrative place to operate, the bar doesn’t have to manage them, the customers are smiling and the tills keep rolling.
The main issue for me is accountability. Hopefully the medical encouragement and helpdesk will help provide the safety net the barfine system is supposed to provide.
Curious about two things - I never visited the original Mango - are the burgers still going to be good? And will you be actively discouraging undesirables - ie aging street meat/uzbek babushkas/unconvincing katooey with scary red yaba/ganja eyes?
View all comments by Milo
funny the timing on “Gray”, since the responses from YP’s post! WW also wrote a rather touching piece on the subject and it appears gray is soon becoming a summer color. I really like your ideas for helping the girls out, especially the medical stuff. I’m assuming you guys have done the math and offering these services will probably be similar to the salary costs incurred to employ them as before.
Does the Thai Government encourage charitable causes? If this gets the right spin you may even attract outside support, what is Empower?
Any way I can’t say enough about the clinic and English assistance, these are things that would surely fall from the shit to do list if money were tight. Any attempt to help a fellow human being improve their future is a noble and just effort in my book! Just a thought but what about some way to screen the customers? Not to assist in the costs but to protect the girls. I’ll bet if the Big Mango became known for having clean, disease free clients on both sides of the fence you would soon be eying the neighboring spaces and the joys of construction could go on for ever!
PS. I just so happen to be rolling into town on June 2nd so I’ll expect a clean glass!!
CHEERS!
ron;)
View all comments by NurseRon
milo - believe me it was such a coincidence. Had this post brewing for a while but was waiting for us to get closer to the opening. The YP thing was not written by me and neither was the BBK piece. seems everyone was at attention so was a good time to pull the trigger.
fyi - I think the barfine system is a perceived safety net. Ever tried to return a girl? complain or get your barfine back? rarely happens. I think we will do our best to try and keep a good environment but obviously cannot take responsibility for things.
The food will be the same with some new additions.
We will watch the girls as they come to see how it goes but we will not be marketing to or offering the cards to ladyboys or less than decent candidates.
nruseron - I won’t get into the economics of it all but we think it is a good bet money wise. Empower will be helping with some of this stuff.
http://www.empowerfoundation.org/
We are not working with the government and have no plans to. Would not really make sense since the government does not really appreciate this type of a business.
I won’t get into it here but Thaksin and his regime, the people behind the 30 baht scheme, closed most of the free clinics that girls used to rely on. I would say due to this - girls are getting checked out a lot less than most punters think. Working in a bar or not. So we hope to encourage a process here. We will talk about the clinic more when we get the details ironed out. We have a fairly well known contact we are working with.
I won’t touch the customer screening but for sure people should be getting themselves checked out and taking the right precautions.
great feedback folks and thanks for commenting!
View all comments by smitty
All good stuff, I intend to be there as soon as the door opens.
Can I have a discount card?
Policing the girls/guys sounds like a recipe for disaster, I think you’ll need to tread carefully if you want to go down that path. But I’m sure you already figured that out…
One question that I don’t think’s been brought up - Gullivers allows ladyboys inside. The Soi 7 beergarden and Thermae do not. What’s the Biggerer Mango’s policy going to be on that front? How important is Young Penfold’s custom to you guys?
View all comments by TAFKABBB
Wow, telepathy or something. Smitty’s comment appeared as I submitted mine, answering the questions he hadn’t read yet. Spooky.
View all comments by TAFKABBB
t - I don’t think we are talking about policing but we reserve the right to give or take away the cards at will. We will over time, if we can, strive to tie the cards to some system with the clinic but this will take time.
We also plan on being careful about who we hand the cards out to. At this point I don’t see a need to say we are deciding who can and cannot walk in the door but we do NOT plan on handing out the cards to ladyboys.
yp can sort himself out.
View all comments by smitty
smitty- in a nutshell I imagine walking in for a san mig and having to locate the direction to the bar from the directory containing help desk, clinic, computer lab, and classroom. Kinda reminds me of finding my way in a mall.
Obviously that’s a caricature of the situation and I know that’s not at all what you’re talking about but you get the overall idea- taking on too much can cause problems for you and customers. Good on you for recognizing up front what would be nice and what the lesser goals are and prioritizing.
I’ve had my own experience with that sort of thing which is why I brought it up. I’ve been in the adult biz online for a number of years now and have gotten tripped up lots of times by “hey, that would be cool too. let’s squeeze it in” syndrome. Always seems to burn me!
View all comments by R9
r9 - I get your point but this is the strategy we have for a kick ass bar.
the teaching is handled by empower - not us. We are giving them a room and so on. We may volunteer teach after things get settled. Empower has quite the operation already. the clinic will be handled by a clinic - we are just trying to get a good deal and other goodies and hopefully some day track it a bit.
Computers - we will have those anyway. Not a lab - just 3-4 machines on the 2nd floor that girls and customers can use. not separate from the bar.
we will staff someone for the freelancer helpdesk but that is no problem. she is on board already.
So i get your point but the point of this bar is to change the game.
coolio
View all comments by smitty
smitty- I hear ya and I understand how that fits in with your statement about the constantly changing nature of the business.
Sometimes when you see a general direction of change coming you can really catch the wave and let it take you a long way if done and timed right- got my fingers crossed for you guys.
Oh and btw, I bet I’m not alone in saying more frequent posts on the progress would be interesting. Its a lot of fun to watch a business take shape and play armchair investor!
View all comments by R9
So there will be no barfines?
I mostly pull freelancers when in Thailand, so I am excited about your new business plan. The idea sounds great and is very unique, congratulations.
Why did you not answer my application for the position at the freelancer helpdesk? Was it my hairy chest?
View all comments by Phoenix
smitty & pmmp - I’m all with you on the new concept! But watch out, with so many services offered, you’re gonna end up building a new plaza…
View all comments by mart
Smitty, genius. So simple, but overlooked as yet around Soi 4. But is this a NEW way forward. One of the first things I was taught by an old Publican years back was that a place should be welcoming to the Ladies. The Men will follow. Don’t forget rule number 2….. a sweet smelling area for our ablutions. I’ll be there September!
View all comments by bangkokairways
Great post.
Sounds like the Soi 7 place will have some competition and competition can sometimes be a good thing.
Is their cheap Thai food (som tom) near your place? We all know how the Thais feel about that?
The term “freelancer help desk” drew a smile. I like that.
An idea I’ve kicked about round is giving the girls an individualized bar code card. They could scan it upon leaving with a “date” (verified discreetly via eye contact with security). And then (since you know the sales game) monthly contests for most short times. You know, a cadillac, steak knifes, comb outs at the salon…
I’m sure you thought of this but don’t forget subscriptions to the English language newspapers. These sometimes get me over to the soi 7 place and, once there, who knows what you may eat, drink, exit with.
Need help with recruting?
Good luck!
View all comments by Mr. Kotter
Very good of you to think to look after the freelancer girls. I’m sure most decent guys would be much more happy coming to abar where they know the girls are properly treated and not just expected to be there
I wish you good luck with your new venture
View all comments by charles
It’s all very interesting and I will be back in July and come in for a few. How about giving us some cards each then if we happen to get a good soapy or meet some fresh produce we can recommend the bar to them?
View all comments by Young Royal
I can’t help wondering if the freelancer helpdesk will have a premium rate number leading to an automated menu of possible prostitute quandaries.
If your query relates to a suspicious Swedish sponsor, press 1.
Mini-shorts or skirt with peeping thong? press 2.
If you would like ‘Zombie’, ‘Suicidal’, or ‘Hotel California’ for your personal ringtone, press 3.
For pussy-shaving tips and all other farang-pleasing enquiries, please hold for an operator.
View all comments by Milo
free-lancer heaven Smitty… The Big Mango 2, become an agent for Western Union! You’ll be made! you’ll be counting Buffalo’s to go to sleep!!!!!!
View all comments by bangkokairways
why does no one do a bar where the bar girls are ALL checked. kind of like STD free garuanteed kind of thing. Where the bar is involved in the checks - gets them done properly. i dont think you can do it here for new big mango. but there is a niche for this if another bar wants take it on. of course - cannot be 100 percent endorsement of safety for logistics i cant be assed to go into. but you get me.
View all comments by random
Brilliant! You and pmmp have obviously put some thought into this, and i’ll probably end up moving my “second office” from the pub to the new Big Mango. especially if you have the jalapeno burgers again.
Any thoughts on how the help desk will work? Will there literally be a desk in the bar staffed with a Thai woman at the ready? Or will it be a little more discreet (like a “help office” or something)? Just thinking of the whole “face” thing - i.e. would a freelancer lose face if she is seen getting help like that, or does face simply not apply to the freelancer scene?
View all comments by go go groupie
ph - there will be no barfines but we are probably going to allow service staff to be barfined if they so choose. as far as the freelancers are concerned - it is all between u and them. we denied your application knowing you just wanted to be on the inside and blog about it with no care as to your actual job function. deal.
mart - no drama. we have room to grow.
bkkairways - in the sense of a bar actually giving or shall we say offering things to the girls - I would say that is the new way. as far as making a place girls want to come to knowing it brings guys - no one can patent that idea.
jd kotter - soi mango is home to a som tum stand. exit bar. prior to hitting soi 4. so no drama. some form of tracking is always interesting. we can use the stats for the bargirl trading cards.
we will have food and will work on the paper thing. thanks
yes - we do need help recruiting. so bring in the girls please.
charles - exactly our thought. we think there is a huge difference between tolerating them and drawing them in.
yr - we will have some flyers we will hand out. for some guys - once we make sure they get it all we may give them some cards to hand to choice girls. kind of a viral attempt and using guys to get the girls.
milo - u so get it. I think we may even have a button that says - ask a random farang. then we will random dial a customer who can take the request. later we will move it to an online call in show with a panel of experts. all filmed in the bar of course.
caller 1 - your on the mic. what is the problem?
Well my bf wants a 3 some and I am not sure how it will effect our relationship….
so on and so on.
bkk - hmmmm. atm machine. western union. my head is spinning.
random - what you describe is what most bars claim or should be doing. We did our best at the mango but no one would say they can assure you all is cool. between test times, dr payoffs and so on a bar would never promise anything. anymore that customers could swear to girls they are clean. I see what your angle is but tough to accomplish. in the freelancer scene, most bars catering to freelancers, are doing nothing at all. so we hope to make some imprint there.
gg- burgers will be back, you can be in request to re-locate offices and we will get back to you
the helpdesk I guess is more of a term than a place but located near the computers, upstairs in the new bar, will be a bulletin board, some information and as much as we can a staff member on call for the girls.
The idea is more non formal and take it as we go. If it gets bigger or needs some privacy we will tackle that as we go. We envision girls asking about the classes, the clinic, needing email help, and so on. Empower is also known for helping with more complicated things legal, police and so on so we will push to them when needed.
We are prepared to offer more space for this if it takes off but right now we are just taking it as we go.
Empower was very excited about it all and next week we hope to announce something interesting around the clinic.
thanks all for the comments, this is exactly what we needed and what the blog helps us to do.
View all comments by smitty
Quality replies, thanks all.
phoenix: bar fines will not be a primary part of the business BUT if a service/bartender/cook/owner wants to “leave” for the night or for an hour or two, a bar fine can be paid.
mrkotter: where isn’t there cheap thai food near a place on soi 4? Soi Mango has a cart or two already.
youngroyal: good idea on comp’ing guys who bring freelancers. We’ll see but a 10% discount card will be waiting for you regardless.
milo: hilarious
bairways: Western Union branch, great idea!
ggg: Jalepeno Burgers for sure. The freelancer help desk is more virtual. We will have an area by the computers upstairs with a pin board of postings (ie. an antique blog of sorts), empower literature, hopefully free condoms, and there will be a member of staff to assist/welcome the girls.
View all comments by pmmp
Great idea guys, good luck with it.
I see the free access to terminals as of major attraction to the girls, but you will need to be careful in controlling how long they stay on or you will find they are chatting all day (and not only with you!). Also, if they are anything like my kids (and I suspect in this connection at least, they are) then the punters may find it difficult to engage in a conversation to pick up when they are on line. I am sure you will have thought it through but this one could prove troublesome.
Anyway, looking forward to a visit when next in Paradise - missed you when I was over in April.
All the best.
View all comments by Not in Paradise
Love the concept! A charitable organization for freelancers. Mission statement: To provide poor local women a safe, educational and engaging environment where they can improve their earning potentials…
Will try to volunteer as often as possible. Will tell the wife that I found this great new organization where I can help poor women to improve their lives. The charitable contributions will be flowing in. Will you be registered as a charitable organization with any governments?
btw, when you get the Big Mango free clinic up and running I will be happy to volunteer to help with the physicals.
View all comments by MunchMouth
Cock Tale - Menu
The GFE - very sweet, with a lingering after taste…
The Miracle Mile - Very alcoholic, cheaper after 1am
The 2 Pops - The second pop is 1/2 price
The Western Union - Takes ages to make and costs a fortune
The Freebird - Locals love it - intoxicating and it’s free!
The Newbie - Costs a fortune has no alchohol but comes with a manual
The Bloody Mistake - guess!
The Sick Buffalo - Buy one, pay for it five times
Free make up and hair salon … LOL - sounds good guys…
View all comments by psi100th
Congratulations on your new approach to the Big Mango. You can be sure that a good freelancer bar is really needed here.
Probably you can be very succesful, so I hope you got a big bar for all the crowds that may be coming once you open it.
Next, it will be nice to know which good short-time hotel is near by to make the experience “the perfect one”, especially for guys that cannot bring back home the birds.
View all comments by messi
Can you please make sure there are no freelancers lurking around past their expiration date? This is always the worst thing about any freelancer venue. Maybe you can issue some kind of membership card for the girls that avails them to all of your services but keeps out girls that have not been to the clinic in a few weeks or is past her prime.
“Past her prime” means with kid(s), over 24 or has worked in a bar for more than 4 months.
View all comments by somchai
A classroom?
How about a B.J. room? That would work.
View all comments by Khun J
Interesting and ambitious program.
I’m just wondering though: Is the bar the best place to provide medical services, english lessons, helpdesks, etc? Can you realistically be both the ‘disease’ and the ‘cure’?
I’ll be following your project with great interest!
View all comments by Suk Psycho
Will try to keep on the comments since I think some people may have the wrong impression:
not - the girl helping the freelancers will be helping with the computers. We will have to have some sort of way to make sure people get access. Chances are we may not install IM - since that seems to be the big time waster for guys and girls. The goal is not a place where someone comes and hogs a computer but a place where customers without a computer have a place to check email. like the old mango laptop but no we will have 3-4 machines. Most girls do not have a computer so this helps them out but obviously we will have to oversee the usage.
psi - maybe onsite salon but discounted. not free.
m - plenty of short time rooms on soi mango. never fear. We may get a deal with one of them if we can.
s - as stated in other comments we will do our best as to who we hand out cards to and do our best to set the tone. I can’t say at this point we are planning on going around and kicking girls out. This is a process - like a good blog. It will take shape over time.
kj - lolitas comes to mind. I think we plan for now and not being a place with onsite service.
suk - we are not doing a clinic onsite. we are working with some already established clinics on some sort of program. the new mango is a 5 story building so the classroom won’t be an issue. helpdesk was explained in other comments as well. not biggie there.
I won’t touch the disease and the cure comment since that is a black hole. I think the freelancer scene exists - we are trying to build a better mousetrap but in a way that benefits all sides.
thanks!
View all comments by smitty
great idea smitty & pmmp and i wish you the best of luck with the soft/hard opening!! i’ll be sure to visit later in the year. (dont know if id wanna bf the cook though)
View all comments by Mr Carpet
When I first read the blog I thought that you must have told me these ideas last year. Upon reflection I realized why I thought it. In the middle of 2007 a friend and I were actively trying to buy a bar, and we had decided that we would set up a freelancer bar with ‘incentives’ for the girls. We discussed some (but not all) of the ideas that you have (I remember English classes and discount cards).
In the end, we never went into the bar business.
Sounds like you guys are on the right track. I also know that you guys are involved in your business, flexible, and able to adjust the model as you learn what works and what doesn’t.
I am heading out of Bangkok on 1 June and I’m gutted by the fact that I won’t be around to help ‘break in’ the new mango.
BTW: will the name still be “The Big Mango” or will it be designated as ‘new’ or ‘2′?
Good luck boys!
View all comments by werewolf
Refreshing look outside the square and congratulations for breaking new ground. Should be a great ride and we will certainly give you our custom when we return in July.
An international network of customers who are passing on the word to visit Mango2 should keep you in business. Can’t think of any other bar that has this as a background for a start up…good luck to you.
Noted from other sources that the owner(s) can get into trouble for sitting around in their bars, especially if it looks like they are helping out. So if we visit when you guys are not there..
Maybe you could attach a card (different to the freelancers)to an email to all the regular bloggers so you can keep a track of the incoming patronage from your blog.
See you in July.
Cheers
View all comments by 3amigos
Shifting BKK night-life boundaries…
Going into business for yourself, becoming an entrepreneur, is the modern-day equivalent of pioneering on the old frontier…
Good Luck!
View all comments by Fluke
excellent ideas guys
my concern about your screening freelancers seemed to be answered before i even asked [i've met some scary ones at biergarten ]
eagerly waiting for opening day
View all comments by roddy
Interesting venture. Do you plan to have staff for playing pool? or is that left up to the freelancers? What is the source of income revenue from this? Will your income be from food and beverage sales?
Have you checked out that new beer garden near walking street? They have a new freelance joint with some your same ideas. They even give out food credits to guys that bring in freelancers and even a guarantee of 150THB off a barfine of a nearby bar if you can’t find a good freelancer in their establishment.
View all comments by bkk
top idea guys,freelancers ,love the idea for the new bar,thinking outside the box , am very new to the bangkok scene ,sad will not be there for opening ,not quite an fob,been bkk 6 times ,but a newbie to the nightlife ,thru information from this site,had no rip offs no disasters ,for this i thank all of you,love this site, last trip came alone to bkk , this site helped enourmosly , took all the information that was on offer thru various threads, had an outstanding trip, beirgarten ,magic table soi7 ,tulip massage( just awesome ) ,arina two massage, annies soapy, rainbow 4 , rawhide, long gun soi cowboy, not sure somchai post,no cards for past there prime over 24, met a freelancer 33 (beirgarten)experienced,good looker,a spinner, just outstanding in bed, had for 2 nights l/T did it all bbbj,loved all positions,cum more times than you could count,a real screamer wailed like a banshee wolf and I had the scratch marks to prove it ,a little bit hard to explain to the TGF ,so us old blokes dont need just kids,with age can cum real pleasure, also had a 23 yr old 168cm 49 kg Stunner not as good in the art of pleasure as the past her prime freelancer,But ok just the same , wish you guys well with this venture
will be back in december will call in and buy you guys and a freelancer a drink
View all comments by busyboy
Nice work, gentlemen.
View all comments by smitty from America
Love the new concept. You may be on to something here. I hope it works out for you. It will be nice to not babysit the bargirls and not worry if they show up or not. Best of luck.
One more thing / question - I can read a little bit of Thai but honestly I cannot make out what the card says or the map. What font is it written in ? I realize different fonts make Thai look completely different from font to font.
Best of luck fellas - can’t wait to stop on my next trip
View all comments by calvin
I should verify what I could / could not make out - the Big Mango part is very clear - but not the pink writing or some of the map, like the writing in the green bar.
View all comments by calvin
ww: We will still be called the Big Mango Bar. Mostly because I don’t want to change the big blackboard. It took me two weeks to do it last time.
3amigos: I appreciate market data like the next guy but not at the expense of privacy or discretion. Sorry to expose my “left” side but probably better to not track visits.
bkk: The staff will certainly be available for pool but the pool tables will be challenge pool upstairs so may be a different dynamic than the old bar, more like Gulliver’s. First floor pool table may be one you can stay on as long as you want. Basically though, if nobody is available to play then staff will be there. You can also buy a “staff” drink which is just like a lady drink, they get 40 baht but the drink is more expensive. They can also be barfined should the stars align that way. Yes, income will be primarily from food and beverage sales. Our expenses are a bit lower moving out of NEP so that should help. We will have some specials like a 10% VIP card and really aggressive pricing, hopefully enough to attract and keep customers.
busyboy: Excellent to hear about your successful visit and glad the bloggers here could help.
calvin: Will let smitty answer this one, looks Chinese to me.
btw, there was a classic Yamaha parked in front of the new Mango today. Got some snaps of Oh and Nid on it. http://www.bigmangobar.com/risingfromashes.html . Enjoy!
View all comments by pmmp
I am tempted to share my thoughts on this, but in fears of pouring a dose of reality on your dreams of a successful business with what you perceive as a new business model, I think I better just keep my views to myself. All the best…
View all comments by CheapCreep
CC: Thanks for the best wishes. Don’t be shy though to share your views, might help us learn. Let me get my extra coat of skin first. Okay, blast away.
View all comments by pmmp
S&P - let me add my best wishes - I’m sure it will be a great success
View all comments by doctorbond
Are we witnessing the birth of ethical pay for play?
View all comments by Milo
Pmmp & Smitty,
Interesting concept, will it work? I think yes but “on the long term” but don’t forget the name of the game is to make money even if its viewed as a charitable approach, charties make fckin tonnes of money but your concept has a unique feel to it.
Yes, freelancer scene is massive, many of the girls & I know many earn 6 fiqure sums a month, I’m told the average across the board is 60,000pm but as you say they go where the action is! If their good looking, street smart, speak english, fashionably dressed, passport, then their in business big time.
Reading your intended way forward & comments, I luv the idea of the “members” card & entitlements but calcuating a scenario P&L over a 3yr period based on current operating & expenditure costs & your giveaway services I would have hoped to seen a better bottom line.
My suggestion to you is to offer these services on monthly subscription to the girls, they can afford it provided what you intend to do is guarenteed, particular internet, medicial, social assistance & so-on, imagine you have 1000 members subscribing 1000baht pm, of course you’ll have to set up the mechanisim but have a look into the “Hawala” system, any good pakistani will explain the system & benefits of help in need of crisis, this would work extremly well for the girls and of course generate a good return.
See you in August 1st, keep a cool lao with a jagermiyster to go.
TTFN
View all comments by laocowboy
pmmp - I appreciate your openness to criticism, but as long as your enthusiasm about success is not all based upon a self fulfilling prophecy that stems from an insatiable desire to come up with a way to sustain an existence in Thailand, then I think you will be OK in accepting if things don’t work out quite the way you planned. Really it is not my business to throw sand in your sails when you think you might have reinvented the wheel and there is a good chance I could even be wrong on my views. So rather than spewing on you with the darker side at this point, I rather wish you and Smitty all the best. I give anyone credit for wanting to get into the bar business here after all the failures I have seen and especially having a life of sleeping during the day and spending your nights around the drunken dregs of the earth. And, since you got both feet in it already, the only way is forward. May the force be with you!
View all comments by CheapCreep
Great ideas, guys. I think some people here are missing ‘we’re doing things for the girls’ as charity, whereas in fact it’s a very shrewd way to make your place the best place for a Thai FL to hang out. Quality of scenery encourages repeat and enthusiastic custom, and gives the owner a bit or pricing power by having a premium product.
As I said to smitty if I’m still overpaid and overworked next spring, god willing and the creek don’t rise, I’ll visit the first day I’m in BKK.
How about Thai lessons for us witless farangs trying to figure out what everyone is saying about us? Other than that I sweat a lot of course.
View all comments by tosh
pmmp - will there be some sort of dress code? im thinking untidy punters could scare some of the “grey” girls away
calvin - i think the pink writting says “lady club”. but my eyesight’s to crap to read the purple and green bits.
View all comments by Mr Carpet
MrCarpet: No dress code but I get your point. Will have to see how it goes I guess.
CCreep: You are a gentleman and a scholar. Thank you.
View all comments by pmmp
I have a mental picture of a kind of freelancers’ Women’s Institute. Mind you, we all know TGs do a mean creampie. I have my doubts over this club-like concept but wish you well.
View all comments by Combover
Hmmm…how about a Miss Freelancer contest?
View all comments by The Asian Badger
Nurse Ron - If you want to know where the term “gray”, or more specifcally “shades of gray”, was used in referring to the different types of women in this country, you can refer back to a comment I made back in February here when I was still posting under Cheapolay: http://www.2thebigmango.com/reader-submissions/2008/02/12/sherbert-by-werewolf/#comment-73290
View all comments by CheapCreep
folks
I will do another post soon to address some of this
card translation
clinic
and so on. might be easier than forcing people to troll through the comments for answers
there is some feeling here that we are spending money on all this and therefore the economics are doomed. Well - we ran a beer bar before so I would say we have some experience with the economics.
the clinic we are not spending money on - more on that later
we rented a big building folks - 5 stories. We have room. Oh - and those 5 stories are cheaper than a closet in nana.
english lessons - we are providing a room. empower has the courses and the teachers.
all great feedback folks and we are listening. We never thought this would be easy or a success from day 1. However we know what we have learned to date and what we think might work. The rest will be up to fate I guess.
View all comments by smitty
Best of luck with the new concept guys. I will be there on June 1 if that is your opening night.
I was hoping you’d open a bar that somehow appealed to bisexual freelancers…..maybe make sure all your current gf’s ex’s show up Smitty?
You can also publicise the bar as a destination for swingers globally - this is a huge market and has seen big success in places like Jamaica.
Also not sure how you stop the bar attracting the same girls and clients as Biergarten on Soi 7…. or Thermae?
The better looking freelancers tend to congregate where they stand a better chance of catching big fish or newbies, which usually means the hotel disco scene or Qbar, placecs where guys have already had to pay bigtime just to get in, and therefore acts as a neat filter. If I were a freelancer, I might think the BigMango clients are just too savvy….but hopefully your attractions outweigh this.
And will your bar be able to somehow stay open later? Even as a private club? The after hours scene is by far the best for freelancers, as all the girls from the g-clubs, MPs and discos join the girls from Cowboy/Patpong/Nana that struck out.
View all comments by Mochalover
ml - wow. long time no hear. hope things are well.
I think you bring up some awesome points and ones really without answers. First off we have to run a bar that makes money - so to decide now who we let in and who we don’t is impossible to say at this point.
But I would say we hope to try and break some new circles of girls and see if we can attract more than just the girls on the circuit.
It is funny. The stats say that some 30-40% of all girls in a salon, owners and workers are ex bargirls. This is an untapped market and I for one plan on seeing how we can tap it. The member card is all about them.
Late night - remains to be seen right now but upon opening we will NOT be a late night joint but we are going to see how this one goes.
There is a big difference between the club circuit girls and the soi 7 girls. Still working on how to bridge that somewhat.
We also have not even really looked into how to use the net for the girls as well.
View all comments by smitty
I know from experience that a lot of the soapy and sideliner girls all head out to there local nightclubs/bars in search of some extra cash, so maybe tapping into that market could be valuable if not a little difficult with the owners etc.
Maybe a small drink/cash incentive if they bring there soapy mates along? Its a rushed idea that needs some thought but maybe could be worked on?
Also what about a funky hair salon on 1 of the floors/rooms? Anyone hanging around nana has seen the salons there do a roaring trade and is full of working girls. Also i can get my highlights touched up there - gotta stay looking fresh!
View all comments by Young Penfold
Dont know if this has been touched on as i’ve come in really late on these posts, but if a girl registers with you guys, anyway of SMS’ing them new deals/promotions etc to boost numbers when you have special events etc?
Im a tech-twat so would have no idea the cost involved or wether this would be viable or not - just throwing the idea out there folks
P.s. PLEASE get a salon. Or maybe just a pot of hair wax,a hairdryer and a rack of multicolored headbands in the corner for me
View all comments by Young Penfold
Sounds great. Is there a mailing list to get news of the launch?
View all comments by jay
jay: To subscribe you can send email to info@bigmangobar.com with SUBSCRIBE in the Subject. No need for you to do however since I just added you. Thanks.
View all comments by pmmp
I hope to be there for the opening of your building site!
It sounds as if you’ve really defined a new type of BKK institution - your main problem will be getting the guys to leave. Can I have a La-Z-Boy chair and a saline/viagra IV drip? Some magazines on a coffee table would be nice (I suggest subscriptions to “Clout”, “Quim”, “Box”, and “The Beano”) and knitted coasters and plastic toilet roll holders on every table.
View all comments by Pants Elk
I like the new concept and agree it is inline with P4P trends in Bangkok. As pointed out by you and other bloggers, the FL scene in Bangkok has significantly increased in the past 4 years, assisted primarily by the greed and poor service provided by gogo owners and their staff.
The percent of expats and regular visitors I know who regularly frequent and barfine girls from gogos is steadily dropping. As a mutual friend told me a couple of years ago, gogo bars are for tourists who need something quick and easy during brief visits. Of course, some gogo bars still thrive because of the increasing number of male tourists coming to Thailand.
I know jacksh*t about bar economics, but was surprised when you said the original BM did not have that many BFs. Assuming the average ladydrink girl pulled 10 barfines each month (easy for most of the former BM staff), that would equal the profit from selling around 60-80 LDs, maybe?
Please excuse my accounting mindset, but in a typical beer bar which sells food, would the profits by category typically rank in the following order, from high to low: customer drinks, lady drinks, barfines, food?
Bottom line, best wishes for success for a bar service concept that I like, and that I think is following the changing trend of customer needs.
View all comments by dj
pe - thanks for the kind words and hope we have somewhat of the problem you are describing.
dj - the average LD girl did not get 10 a month. It is pretty simple - did you ever BF?
I don’t say that to mean you should have but to point at that a lot of our customers were savvy regular customers and they felt the way you did.
most of the money is in the booze. As with most bars other than go-gos.
View all comments by smitty
My initial intention when I first started going to the original Big Mango was not to barfine because I viewed it as a ‘home’ bar to meet friends, eat, play pool, and generally kick back before and/or after a night out. Too much interaction with the ladies can complicate these goals.
I held out for nearly one year before my initial BF at the BM, and had several after that, but only with 3 different ladies. I seem to only pay barfines currently if I already know the lady and like hanging out with her. Maybe I’m getting to ‘know too much’ and becoming jaded, but it seems the majority of ladies working are much less fun than they used to be.
Now in Pattaya. Stopped by the Pattaya Beergarden Sunday around 2:00 pm, and back by again around 4:00 pm. Not too many customers both visits, and only spotted 3 FLs. I’ll have to drop back by in the evening to see how things pick up.
Ended up with a starfish out of Naughty Girls. Well, she had a cold, and I’m not so hot. Now that the Pattaya gogos are out of my system, time to hit the beer bars.
View all comments by DJ
DJ: That’s yet another report of the Pattaya Beer Garden not having any customers. I just heard from some friends on Saturday that the place was dead during their visit this past week. They had gone during the nighttime and stayed for a few hours and only saw a few customers and even fewer FLs. Seems the initial buzz is wearing off but will need to hear a few more reports.
View all comments by pmmp
Returned to the Pattaya Beer Garden Monday night around 8 pm. Around 40 farangs eating/drinking, some with their Thai dates. Spotted 3 or 4 FLs at the bar, only one of which seemed to be talking with a farang.
Hard to understand, it’s a great location, the food and servi