Against all odds
Sometimes the endless whoring leaves you a little jaded. It’s just too easy. After a while, you realise you’re missing something. You’re missing the chance to fail. Let’s face it, even if a prima donna in Rainbow 4 knocks you back, there are still another several hundred girls within spitting distance who your pals back home would kill just to have dinner with. But you can take them home and sleep with them for even less than what that dinner back home would cost.
It’s too easy.
So after a while I think we residents almost begin to invent obstacles for ourselves. Perhaps we decide that from now on, we’re not going to be satisfied with regular action - we’ll only entertain the idea of threesomes (or moresomes -a friend of mine had an elevensome, which I think is possibly taking a good thing too far). Whilst it’s nowhere near as challenging to arrange as it was back home, some girls just won’t do it. Or at least won’t do it very well. So there’s a chance we could end the evening empty-handed, or at least slightly disappointed. But more importantly, when we beat these odds of our own construction, we can feel we’ve actually achieved something. We’re funny creatures, aren’t we?
Other guys enter the world of online dating. They’ll meet the cuter girls offline, buy them dinner and drinks, and then maybe take them home. Or maybe the girl will say “thanks for dinner”, and bail. We like to beat the odds, but here in Thailand we’re struggling with a state of play in which we essentially have to construct our own pitfalls.
Even taking on the regular “good” girls isn’t exactly tricky, although it usually takes longer than my most recent experience. I was taking a breather from the gogos with a foot massage - one of my less extreme vices. A word to the wise - this was a regular massage joint, no sex here. And as the cute girl fondling my feet fluttered her eyelashes at me, it occurred to me that it had been a while since I tried it on with a “regular” girl, and that perhaps it was time. I needed a challenge.
The girl in question was shortly due to take a day off - these girls generally get one or two days off per month. I offered to take her out for a Thai dinner on the day in question, and then see what happens. She was thrilled, and practically fell over herself with eagerness to swap phone numbers.
Once the day itself came though, I’d entirely forgotten about our “date”. I’d already eaten alone when she called, and told her so. She didn’t seem too disappointed though, and just came straight over to my apartment, skipping dinner.
We chatted for maybe an hour, after which she took a shower, joined me in bed, and supplied me with yet another notch on the bedpost. I gave her a hundred baht for the taxi in the morning, and she left with a smile on her face. No dinner, no drinks, no payment, no problem. It’s still too easy.
I think I need a tougher challenge. And I’m still not sure exactly why. Any suggestions?
Here are my suggestions:
- try to nail a (local) celebrity
- get a foot massage in your regular joint whilst being riden by another girl that works there
- try to convert a lesbian
- on your next flight try to nail an air-hostess mid-flight
- try to get a regular gogo-girl to pay YOU for sex
- try to nail someones girlfriend/wife
View all comments by BassFace
ummm.. so this girl works in a massage shop (albeit a regular one) and then happily has sex with you on the first night. if you think she is a ‘good’ girl you have obviously been living in a world of flashing neon for too long.
please allow me to step onto a pedestal for a minute…
i’m not judging your lifestyle choice but you are clearly encouraging the common foreigner’s perception of thailand as simply a country of whores.
gogo bars are fine for a laugh if you are here on holiday, but if you are living here? seriously, stop being a social loser and step outside of the naughty nightlife scene before it’s too late. go to some regular nice bars & restaurants and meet some educated thai people who are capable of having a meaningful conversation in english.
i think even you will agree that the majority of guys here who spend all their time in the gogo bars are social degenerates of one kind or another. most of them are convinced that they’ve hit the jackpot but really they are just chasing fool’s gold.
the real prizes in life still have to be earned.
peace.
View all comments by asdaprice
@BassFace:
#1. Easy. Models and starlets have been known to moonlight in the classier soapies, such as Poseidon.
#2. I’m going to admit defeat on that one. Full sex in a glass-fronted shop isn’t going to happen.
#3. Everyone’s a lesbian if you’ve got enough cash. Moot point.
#4. The Asian air hostesses I’ve met always seem to be over 30. Not my spec. Good idea though.
#5. I’ve had working girls buy me lunch after a freebie session - does that count?
#6. Already done it countless times.
@asdaprice:
“bad girl” = paid for
“good girl” = ostensibly free
You’re right, of course, that most “good girls” take rather longer than one night to get into bed. The point of that story was that I *wanted* a challenge - ie. a girl who I’d have to “win over”, perhaps over a period of several weeks. Ironically, I didn’t have to - so I got laid on the first night for free, but didn’t get my challenge. It’s the paradox of feeling disappointed that I managed to get laid for free that I was poking fun at.
In my opinion, we’re all whores - to a certain extent. Thailand is no different. The only variety is the form of payment. Sometimes it’s truly free. Usually it isn’t.
I have no problem with paying for sex - attractive girls have what I want, and I usually have what they want. Sometimes they want cash, sometimes it’s dinner, drinks, the farang as a fashion accessory, hours of my time, meaningful conversation, lies, etc etc. It’s all a matter of perspective.
And yes, judge away - no offence taken. For your information, I go to plenty of “regular nice bars & restaurants”, and meet plenty of “educated thai people who are capable of having a meaningful conversation in english”. Most of them require more effort than they’re worth, most of them wouldn’t want to share me with other girls, and most of them probably wouldn’t be as skilled in bedroom gymnastics. Get those footprints off my nice shiny pedestal when you’re done!
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
Awwww - BBK Bad Boy - let me tell you - my heart goes out to ya !!! It’s got to be rough, going out / rolling around on the bed with a new girl every night. Sure, it’d be nice if they would actually go on two dates before giving up the goods, but by then you’d move on to something better. And in BKK, there is always something better.
I’ll tell you what - go back to England or come here to America and see how much fun the pursuit really is.
Let me tell you - IT SUCKS !!!! Men want to get laid, plain and simple. Yet here in the US (or England - since that’s where you’re from) getting laid is a major event. Good lord, getting kissed is a chore. I’m sick of the pursuit - I want my dinner to come to me now. Western women suck - it’s as easy as that. Sure, I really shouldn’t say they are all bad, but the majority are - especially if they are good looking. If they are fat and ugly, they give you what you’re looking for. BUT WHO WANTS THAT ?!?!?!?!
Just one more thing - my friends / brother / and I would have contests to see who could shag the fattest chick from a bar (I call it “whaling”). I look back on that and it disgusts me. However, it’d be even more fun in Thailand, as the biggest girl in the bar probably goes about 140 lbs. That certainly isn’t a whale - more like a dolphin. Could we call it Tuna fishing (notice the double play on words)…
Ahhh - can’t wait to get back to the City of (little) Angels……….
View all comments by Calvin
Sorry Calvin, I know it must seem like gloating. In a way, I suppose it is.
There is a case against this lifestyle, somewhere. Nobody’s quite managed to enlighten me as to what it might be yet, but particularly people who’ve never been to Thailand seem uncomfortable with this rather hedonistic existence. They just can’t tell me exactly why.
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
I always remember my father telling me about a favorite author of his, the name escapes me now, I seem to remember he was Irish and lived sometime last Century. Throughout his whole life he had been fairly sensible and hadn’t been a philanderer. Anyway, this Irish fellow, was a successful author and was on his deathbed and he was asked “What would you have done differently” to which he responded “Have sex with more young women”.
Who wants to be thinking that one their deathbed?
View all comments by meister
You want a challenge ??
Stay faithful to one girl for 6 months.
View all comments by MSB
BBB, I think there is more to asdaprice’s post. Although i agree that you pay for it, either directly (bad girl) or indirectly (good girl), it is the indirect girls who provide more of a challenge. I think your dalliance with the foot massage girl wasn’t really a challenge - on the grand spectrum of women here, I’d say that foot massage girls are a few notches above soapy girls at best and not nearly in the same league as waitresses, office girls or even coyote dancers at places like forte.
Try this. Get a stunner from forte or sopranos to meet you after hours. If you get a shag that night or soon thereafter without paying more than you would for a LT with a Nana/Cowboy girl, then my hat’s off to you!
View all comments by lil leroy
Try and find a rich - very rich - girl who will support you.
View all comments by Combover
I need no added sandtraps, and I don’t feel like a social degenerate.
Straight cash for sex transactions on a daily basis work for me.
I take the opposite view to asdaprice, and a similar one to meister. I did many many years of working, saving, supporting, growing. It didn’t make me happy.
In Bangkok I’ve found a life of relative ease, regular sex with beautiful young women and little stress. I think that the fool’s gold is the dream of wealth, security and stability that I chased in my previous life.
If my current lifestyle doesn’t make me live longer, it will at least ensure that I enjoy the remaining years to the maximum.
Here is what I’ve learned: Frequent sex with beautiful girls holds life’s greatest meaning.
View all comments by werewolf
@MSB: Why would anyone want to do that?
@leroy: Agreed. They don’t usually come straight to your apartment and give it up within an hour though. Yes, I could have sought out a waitress, an office girl or a coyote dancer, but it’s about the opportunities that present themselves. I find those coyote-style g-clubs a complete rip-off, but I do get your point. I’m not claiming all “good girls” are so easy, or that the foot girl was even a particularly “good girl”. It just struck me as amusing timing.
@Combover: A friend had a “high-class” freelancer “girlfriend” who basically supported him. I think he felt it kind of threatened his masculinity, or something. Not sure how I’d react. Ah, gender politics.
@werewolf: We’re all social degenerates. Ask the bible-bashers at Nana Plaza. I completely agree with your lifestyle choice. Give me another ten years of this and death before forty, rather than another eighty years in the UK, a string of irritating women and a 100th birthday card from the Queen, gawd bless ‘er.
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
“I think that the fool’s gold is the dream of wealth, security and stability that I chased in my previous life.”
As someone who achieved what the Western world often holds as the highest and loftiest of goals, I feel that I am entitled to comment on this little ditty. Financial security, a great business with wonderful cash flows, a house, a car, etc etc. It sure didn’t make me happy. After my 30th birthday I was more than willing to jump off the perch that I had clawed my way up to. Said goodbye to the business and sold it… no tears of regret here. Sold the excess property that people insisted I should hold onto. Sold the car and most other unnecessary material possessions for a song. Years later I still don’t think I made a mistake. Living here in BKK is tough on me for different reasons, but I don’t want to return the Western style of life where you hoard more than you need and then spend every last moment chasing over-weight trim with an over-inflated idea of their own worth.
I was in the Safari the other night and watched an older gentleman make his way out of the establishment hand in hand with a wonderfully content young lass of maybe 19 years. Both had big smiles plastered across their faces. Tell me, what the hell is wrong with that?
And as far as Asda’s post, I was always under the impression that Thai conversations could be summed up in just a few sentences…. ‘Are you hungry? Have you eaten yet or not?’ Did I miss something? It’s been awhile since I’ve read The Poisonwood Bible, what ever did happen to Asda in the end?
View all comments by The Heckler
Asda was taken over by Walmart but still exists in the UK.. i have no idea why i chose that name. Anyway, I guess my point was that it is still possible to acheive the ‘western’ ideals of success in Thailand if you are determined enough and don’t drop your standards simply because you can.
Sadly all too many foreigners here seem to get caught up in this false notion of ‘living the dream’ that revolves around the naughty nightlife scene. Before they know it they’ve lost all their social skills and can only talk to Isaan hookers in that pathetic broken English voice that sounds like a 2 year old. Yes, you know who you are.
View all comments by asdaprice
@Heckler: amen.
@asda: The point is that we reject those “western ideals of success”. We don’t want the fat wife, the gas guzzling SUV, the 2.4 children, the weekend shopping sprees in Ikea, etc etc. We want to shag a different beautiful teenage/tweenage girl every night, and have a good time. And we’re doing so. And we’re happy. And you still haven’t enlightened me as to precisely what is wrong with it?
I personally speak Thai to the hookers - as I do to any Thais. I think learning the local lingo is the least one can do when living as an immigrant.
And I’m quite happy with my social skills. Talking filth with a gogo girl on a Friday doesn’t preclude me from discussing the classics with Masters degree graduates (from real Universities, not Thai ones) on the Saturday. Still, each to their own!
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
i am agreeing with heckler and bbb on this one.as said before we are all whore in someway shape or form just bangkok is more upfront about it.no matter what you pay something for sex.anytime you buy dinner,movies,drive,shop,etc your not only paying in cash but in time aswell and you can never regain that.
the human race is all about material gain and in reallity there are very few of us that are not.western culture is a real bitch i can speak first hand about it.you say you should try having conversation and pretty much wax interlectual some girls that can and will work with alot of girls now dont like to think.yeah this is going to sound funny i am 23 years hold and still have alot to learn.
i can hold my weight in any debate and subject i have read more then most people.the fact is most women do not want your brain they want the rest so far i have had women 18-41 years old and i learned that western women over rate themselves something awful and it’s very sad.yeah i can’t speak thai very well yet but i am and have been learning and it’s going well.
i dont think of my self as what you have been saying the fact is when you have the option to live the life you want or settle down with one person you pick what you think suits you best i have already been married that sucked cause the girl used me. now i am single again and moving on even though she has cause me alot of trouble right now but i am not letting it drag me down and it made me realize more how much the western culture sucks.
this is just my opinion of coruse but i am happy picking the girl(s) i want at any given time.
draven
View all comments by draven
I owned my own business, drove a very nice Saab, had a wife, a house with a view over the bay, and a pair of great danes roaming the yard and the living room. I achieved the dream. Seven years ago I had my portfolio of shares, three investment properties with tenants and money invested in property developments. I wasn’t rich, but I was solidly upper-middle class. My wife had the slender body and lovely face of a fashion model. I was completely faithful, and never fooled around.
I was, for the most part, unhappy every day.
One day, for no particular reason, the wife and I had a fight. She lost her cool, threw a few household objects at my head and told me she wanted me to pack up & get out of the house, which I did. She called an hour later and begged me to come back home, but she was 60 minutes too late. I’d already started to wonder how I could be put out of my own house when I’d done nothing wrong, and exactly what my future would hold.
In those 60 minutes I started to dream of other jobs, other countries, other girls and freedom from all that seemed to shackle me.
It took me four more years, but I got rid of the wife (and she got more than her fair share of the assets), sold my business, liquidated what I had left, and went on holiday to Asia.
The amazing thing is that I didn’t know what was available in Thailand until after I arrived. I just wanted to see the temples and buy a few souvenirs.
I realized, once I was here for a couple of months, that I was happy for the first time in nearly twenty years. I decided to stay. Like so many others, my greatest regret was that I hadn’t ‘discovered’ Bangkok twenty years earlier.
Now, I’m self-employed. I have a few steady clients, and I work about 30 hours per week. I earn most of my income in US dollars, and I have a middle-class income by Thai standards.
I live simply; one room, laptop computer, TV, refrigerator, some clothes. No car, no stock portfolio, no dogs, a dozen fish in an aquarium, no wife. I exercise at the gym 6 days per week, I avoid drugs, read a lot of books, shoot pool, drink a few pints of beer every week, and travel regularly to different parts of Thailand and SE Asia. My Thai language skills have never developed to a high degree, but I make the effort. I have sex nearly every day with very pretty girls who are generally about half my age.
Life feels pretty good. Certainly a hell of a lot better than it did when I was driving my Saab to my office every day.
I have been here long enough that I’m counting in years, not months. I probably won’t stay in Bangkok forever, but I don’t think I’ll ever regret the decision to come live here. When I think of the happiest days of my adult life, most of them have been here.
In my opinion, what destroys punters in Thailand isn’t the girls; those who lose the plot are usually undone by alcohol or drugs. When you stop living life, and substitute a drug or alcohol induced haze, then you have lost. You stop working, exercising and thinking. You give yourself up to something outside yourself, and you lose the prize.
I’ve lived in Africa, Australia, America and Asia (I’ll have to move to the “B”s soon… so much too do, so little time). I have a cousin who is in her 60s who — like 80% of the world’s poplulation — has never lived more than 70 miles from the place she was born. She is always openly amazed at my life. (And, for different reasons, I am always amazed at hers….)
I am intrigued by adaprice’s comment above, because it is well-written and provoking. The statement I keep looking at is “The real prizes in life still have to be earned”.
I’m sorry, but I don’t agree. I spent decades living on that philosophy and finding it empty. As I close in on my 50th birthday, here’s what I now think:
The real prize IS life, and it has to be lived.
View all comments by werewolf
*hushed golf applause*
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
BB
I didn’t say it would be fun… i just said it would be a challenge.
Anyway, as you said in your atricle you are getting jaded with whoring, thus implying that it was not as fun as it used to be.
View all comments by MSB
@ warewolf
so your dream was to have a wife, a boring car and 2 dogs to crap in your living room???
View all comments by MSB
You, Wolfy are correct. Life is the prize and it most certaianly needs to be lived, and that is the challenge; to not be afraid of living life.Simple and easy is good.I love Lasvegas,but my heart and soul are in Bangkok, A city when a good deed is done payback is tenfold and many times unexspected.I cannot wait til Sept. when I return.I really enjoy all that is good and bad of Thailand. Good luck gentleman or is it Choke deeeee and poke can mi I have to attend to pt. Thanks for the info and the thougts maybe I by you a bear at the bar sometime.
View all comments by Trav Man Doooooooooo
Werewolf : Probably dating myself here again but, um, would that have been the, uh, Saab 900 or the 9000 ;-?
View all comments by Prufrock
werewolf is absolutely right in this matter he hit on the dot what i could not life is a gift,prize the pursuit of happiness is what we are all trying to gain to be honest i am to say i did the thing that werewolf wishes i discovered bangkok before i was to old or before i did something stupid again.like i said i am 23 young and dumb yes but i am smart enough to admit i do not know everything but i am willing to take the lead from someone that knows more then me.
The trip i took there gave me a sense of self and opened my eyes to what i have been living through.I rediscovered myself and felt reborn for the last few years i have been living for everyone but myself trying to fix their lives or save them when really i needed to save myself.i got back and 3 weeks later walked into a mess of problems with life as in the wife.we have a open marrage but she was lying to me and i found out and left.
i am alot happier now then ever i have no plans of settling back down anytime soon i will be back to bangkok and maybe live there for a while but i do plan to go all over the world.my great addiction is life as it is my prize.my traveling the world now is my high i am totally addicted to it.so many talk about it and never do it for that all of us posting here are living the life. to me that is all the prize i need
View all comments by draven
Some thought provoking comments.
I try to remember John Lennon’s words “Life is what happens to you while your busy making other plan’s”
Less planning more life.
Carpe Diem! - this applies equally in LOS and elsewhere.
View all comments by KTBanker
Pruf:
You definitely haven’t kept up on the car market. In the mid-90s Saab replaced the 900 with the 9-3, and the 9000 with the 9-5. I had a 1998 Saab 9-5. Midnight Blue and 4 doors of comfort.
By the way, I’m not a car fan and know NOTHING about any other cars. I only know this factoid about Saab because I owned one.
MSB: That about sums it up, except that the dogs were housebroken.
WW
View all comments by werewolf
Hey. I take offense to MSB’s comment about a boring car
I drove my 1986 Saab 900 for almost 200,000 miles and never grew bored of my time behind the wheel. Even though it only had a puny 1.6 L 4 cylinder engine, it was a f#cking road handling machine. Christ, I started my construction company with that car. Ahhhh…. the faces of the rednecks that I was relegated to work with when I would pull up to the jobsite in my construction car…20′ lengths of pipe sticking out of the trunk. hehehehe. It still makes me laugh.
View all comments by The Heckler
Actually Werewolf, rather than an attempt at establishing myself as a consumer of “medium-better” cars and other depreciating assets at some point in the remote past, my point was rather more along the lines of an attempted irony.
These are always risky so I included my trademark emoticon (i.e. the winky asking a question out of the side of his mouth) and a few, “ums” and “ahs” back there. Sometimes nothing works.
(Heckler, your 900 and my 9000 Turbo ended their lives in remarkably similar fashion. Well-heeled clients would just shake their heads when I’d pull up to a job-site with a bag of grout and a few boxes of tile and adhesive in the back of that thing. )
But you’re quite right, Werewolf: I have missed out on a whole decade and a half of Saabs, BMW’s, and most importantly all the “hipper-than-thou” nonsense than accompanied them. — Including the ludicrously bourgeois coke fad (God’s way of telling you you have too much fucking money)
I do NOT, however, have the requisite tale of marital woe (ended in a most civilized manner with the two of us keeping our over-zealous lawyers in their fucking cages where they belong).
What followed was a fabulous stretch of carnality with that breed of athletically built young women which affinity for older men. Students, swimsuit models, dental hygienists and nubile fuck-monsters who liked being treated “super-properly”.
When I discovered the simple truth that big-time pussy liked to be treated “super-properly” I thought I’d discovered the fucking meaning of life.
Then for a laugh I thought I’d do some more trekking in Nepal.
Found myself here for a longer stretch after a member of our crew keeled over and died of a heart attack in Bobby Robino’s three days before we were scheduled to fly to Katmandu for the Annapurna trek.
The rest is history.
View all comments by Prufrock
I have just read Werewolf’s comments and I have to say his story has made me think…
Just to return the favour I will explain briefly where I am coming from. I’ve lived in Thailand for over two years now, but at 24 I’m probably at a different point in my life.
I have a good job here but my salary is still pitiful compared to what I would be earning back in the UK. Every day I am faced with the increasingly difficult task of justifying why I am living here and potentially screwing up my future (financially and dare I say, mentally).
I guess that’s probably the real reason why I blindly maintain that the western ideals of success are still available here as long as you work hard enough and keep your feet on the ground..
Maybe when I’m 50 I’ll look back and think what a fool I’ve been, but that’s ok. After all, what kind of life must you live NOT to think that?
View all comments by asdaprice
** smiles all around **
View all comments by werewolf
I’d like to raise my lighter for Werewolf’s post, too.
I discovered Bangkok late in life (52), and it was life-changing. Unfortunately, not an easy and pleasant change. I’m still struggling through the shockwaves.
But I am glad I did discover it. Sex tourism has such terrible connotations. At least, it does amongst western women, and men who have never experienced it.
If there are any young men out there hesitating, thinking, maybe one day, when I’ve done so-and-such, I might give it a try … book your ticket now. Don’t leave it until you’ve settled down. The first thing it does is makes you understand the difference between sex and *relationship*. You may think you understand this already, but Bangkok shows you this in a way that is unimaginable if you haven’t experienced it. The second thing it does is remove any stigma (on either side) about the notion of *paying for sex*, which for some reason is seen as an admission of failure, at best, or a sin, at worst.
And the third thing it does is give you the biggest face-aching smile you’ll ever have in your life. It is wild beyond belief. And even when the novelty has subsided, there is still a lot to learn. And a lot of fun to be had.
View all comments by Pants Elk
i read werewolf comment. it moved me. then i read the link to his own blog. it read it all. the guy is a fuck up the same as the rest of us. gaining lots of weight through booze. falling asleep and being robbed on suk st, cheating on the birds he cals “keepers” … please.
we are all fuck ups, we’re here because we can’t fit in back home. i too had a business, house and all that shit (no saab). i’m in my 30’s dont need to work anymore, occasionally do but drinking an fucking myself to death fills my time. it’s an addiction. addictions fill the gap. what is the gap? dunno. i have yet to find. but this isnt the ideal life the dogboy makes out. drinking every day, doing whores every day, gets boring.
View all comments by Poo
Poo, that’s a little harsh. On one level, I agree with you, because “fuck up” is what we’re here to do; that’s our job, to fuck up badly AND understand why we fucked up AND not fuck up again … but on another level, I know people in Bangkok who have very nice lives, for one reason or another, who have found what they wanted and it’s still what they want … and BBB is one of them. For me, BKK is more of a catalyst than a lasting solution. I love the place very deeply - that sense of homecoming I feel at that microclimate of human heat outside Big Dogs is something I’ll never be able to explain - but I doubt I could make it work for me day after day. But I’ve failed to do the day-to-day stuff in a few cities, so that’s hardly a criticism. The trick, as you imply, is to keep it fresh. But at least in BKK you have something you WANT to keep fresh - it’s not exactly suburban middle England and what’s-on-the-telly despair we’re talking about here!
View all comments by Pants Elk
thailands red light prostitution will destroy you, slowly and stealthly. beware. it will catch up with you. why do you think all those lovely fellows jump out windows 10 storys up in pattaya. you know it, deep down you know your fuckin yourself up.
View all comments by bigwig
Gee, I didn’t realize that the tone of my comment was so idealistic, but after reading Poo’s comment I looked at it, and I guess the tone IS pretty damn idealistic.
That wasn’t my intent at all.
When I talk about the ‘happiest days of my life’ what I’m thinking of is dozens of beautiful young brown girls with their legs open… not temple tours or walks in the park.
@Poo: I did “fit in” back home. I just wasn’t all that happy. Discovering the P4P scene in Bangkok changed that.
In my comment above I was TRYING to say that I’m happier here because, as you so clearly stated, fucking myself to death fills my time. My intended message was that I find fucking myself to death more satisfying than the wife, job, and the American dream. It wasn’t my intent to idealize the Bangkok lifestyle.
My blog site is intended to entertain — myself and those who read it. Let me comment on a few of your observations:
I definitely don’t drink every day, more like once a week.
I gained a lot of weight last year, not through booze, but from eating too much Thai food, and I’m now paying for that sin at the gym every morning. (Down 3 kilos in 3 weeks!)
And I’m glad you enjoyed the blog about getting drunk last year and having my phone lifted while I was asleep on the side of Sukhumvit Road– it wasn’t funny at the time but these days its a good story. It certainly isn’t an everyday occurence in my life.
Am I a fuck up? Maybe. But I don’t think so. I work, I have friends and I spend a lot of time and money with the LBFMs.
You say that doing whores every day gets boring. bigwig says it will slowly and stealthly [sic] destroy you.
I’m only trying to say (hopefully not too idealistically) that it hasn’t gotten boring for me… that I’m a hell of a lot happier now than I ever was before, and that having sex every day with young girls IS a great life (at least for me).
I said above that I don’t think that sex destroys people here. I think drugs and alcohol can and do. I can understand how a look at my blog site would make you think I’m drunk all the time, but as I said, the blog is meant to entertain.
As for cheating on the ‘keepers’… well, uh… guilty. Like I said before, “Frequent sex with beautiful girls holds life’s greatest meaning.”
WW
View all comments by werewolf
bigwig/Poo (whoever) - people commit suicide all over the world, for all kinds of reasons. Destructive forces aren’t confined to “thailands red light prostitution” (sic). Conversely, there are good people everywhere, too. If you’ve had a genuinely bad experience in Bangkok maybe you could be specific about it, rather than making generic condemnations? It would be naive to say the BKK scene isn’t without its dangers, but if you’re sensible and careful BKK is a much safer and pleasanter place to live than many western cities with a “safe” reputation. And also one of the last outposts of hedonistic fun; in today’s issue-obsessed nanny-mentality world, that’s something to be treasured. Me, I’d say the traditional western marriage/commitment-based relationship is far more likely to fuck you up seriously than the sex industry in Bangkok.
View all comments by Pants Elk
I agree with Pants Elk. People all over the world commit suicide. Likewise they fuck their lives up with drugs & alcohol. As for western society apart from a higher standard of living it really doesn’t have a lot going for it IMHO. As a single, white, never been unemployed non-custodial parent of a child I see all to infrequently I am a representative of quite possibly the most discriminated demographic in Australia. Apart from the fortnightly visits from my son the other time I find myself genuinely happy is in Thailand. What is it about human nature that leads people to think they can lecture others based on their own narrow perceptions? What is so wrong about seeking to enjoy yourself so long as no one gets hurt?
View all comments by Wombat
The thing about wanton sex is… of all the vices, it is easily the most thrilling. That instant when you and your inspired combatant join hips in that ageless battle, every part of your being is electrocuted with a higher voltage than any drug can offer. Sex is Life and we all want to live.
The more partners you have, the greater chance the mysteries of sex will be revealed to you.
All here can atest to this I am sure; That first time that First woman did that thing to you first, you were reborn with that new knowledge of the flesh and would never be the same again.
But it is still a vice because like it’s counterparts, alcohol and drugs -which are recognized in all spiritual religion that aim to see man greater than himself, it robs him of his mind and makes him Beastly.
All recognize that dreadful feeling, that pang in your heart and worry in your head when you and your umth-teenth lover have separated and all alone you ask yourself “What the fuck am I’m I doing with myself?”
I have not come to give a sermon and pardon me if it sounds as if. Not only would it be hypocritical, it would be like openning a pig-farm in Mecca-plain stupid.
The West has failed you but the East can redeem you in more ways than are presently revealed to you.
We are all ‘BadBoys’ here and we know what do. Let each man chase his pleasure as he sees fit and do so open-eyed.
View all comments by Lucius
im not comparing the west to the east. im saying that consistent whoring anywhere is to your own detriment.
View all comments by bigwig
@bigwig: I personally disagree, but I’m interested to see what others think. Can you explain why you think that?
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
What bigwig is saying is blasphemy and anathema on a site dedicated to the naughty night life but I have to agree with him.
I’m being a bit of a hypocrite because I have been a denizen of brothels of different classes ranging from the champagne clubs of Paris to the seediest bordertown bars on the Mexican side of the Rio Grande. From nightclubs in Caracas, Venezuela to houses of ill repute in New Orleans to gentleman’s clubs in Prague and Budapest in eastern Europe from the bars on Burgos street in Makita to gogo bars from Phuket to Bangkok in Thailand and Orchard Towers in Singapore.
To pursue this life of hedonism is fine if you can afford it but ultimately it is not soul satisfying and will eventually leave you with an empty wallet and an empty spirit. You really lose the plot if you mistake these rented affections for love. As long as you recognize these liasons for what they are (short-term contracts) and don’t invest any deep emotions in them then you might come away unscathed.
Sex is one of the hardest addictions to quit and some of my friends act like they will expire if they don’t get a fix every day.
All in all, the pursuit of happiness in a superficial sexual encounter is an unrewarding venture but to paraphrase the wise man Dicer: “as far as unrewarding ventures go, it is one of the best”.
View all comments by kwai mai sabai
One of the main reasons why I lasted less than 6 months living in Thailand was precisely because when it came to the “endless whoring” it was just too easy. I got bored after 10-11 weeks and found myself taking frequent trips to Phuket or Koh Samui to experience the thrill of the chase with girlies on holiday from Europe. Sure I was knocked back a few times but I also had some great sex and it was a bit more of a challenge than simply looking at someone.
Since then I have been lucky enough to visit LOS 2 or 3 times a year and I really enjoy the hedonistic charms of Bangkok and Pattaya on a 10 day bender.
You full time ex-pats earn my utmost respect for your dedication to “endless whoring”, keep up the good work chaps, it’s a dirty job but someone has to do it.
View all comments by Smiler
come on. for fuck sake. i have no qualms about people paying for sex but everything in life needs balance. too much of anything is bad for you. im probably been unfair. maybe living in thailand and shagging yourself senseless is a healthy lifestyle. actually i’d imagine it could be pretty satisfying…to a point.
i honestly think by only shagging women who only really want your cash for a long period of time will warp your fuckin brain. thailand is absolute dreamland. and that can be . but the longer you stay in dreamland the further you get from your reality. and if reality has to faced at some point it can be a sharp jolt to the system, if it ever needs to faced that is.
View all comments by bigwig
@bigwig: This is reality - as long as you never leave.
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
as i have said before and i’ll say again this is for bigwig no matter what you pay for sex in thailand or not married or not most people are about material gratifaction.you buy dinners,go out to movies etc you paided for your ride but that is my opinion
View all comments by draven
werewolf, what happen to your blogsite? seems to have disappeared from Wordpress…..
View all comments by brucelee
brucelee,
It's a long complicated and not particularly interesting story.
When I set up my website, I wanted lots of content, so I copied and pasted lots of stuff from old emails to friends and other things I had written.
In some cases I was careful about editing actual names and identities, but not always. I copied one old email in particular and posted it as a blog, writing about a girl in detail and using her real name and giving a highly accurate physical description.
Somone read it, spoke to her Australian boyfriend about it, he spoke to her, and she called me. It wasn't particularly bad, because I hadn't had sex with her… I simply wrote about trying and failing to get a date with her (she's a "good girl" not a working girl) but it was embarrassing – especially since she read some of the rest of my website. Anonymity is a Bangkok blogger's friend, and I guess the people I write about should be able to enjoy it as well.
The next day I was leaving Bangkok for a two week work contract with theThailand Department of National Parks well south from Bangkok. In the location I was travelling to, I wouldn't have internet access at all, so I simply turned off my website. I'll turn it back on as soon as I can edit out the identities. I have about 80 blogs to check, so it may take some time.
I am home for only 4 days before returning for another 15-day stint in the internet-free zone, so it may be sometime before the blog site is back on the air.
In the meantime, the good news is that I became intimately aquainted with 4 new Thai girls during my trip — something I hadn't expected.
The best story from the trip:
The last night of my trip, there was a little party — me and 12 Thais who work for National Parks. One of the women at the party is in her early 40's. She took out her wallet and showed a photo of her 18 year old daughter. We all oohed & ahhed. Truth is, the girl looked very attractive in the photo. It may have just been good studio lighting, though.
Mom tells me the girl speaks good English because she works in Phuket and has an English boyfriend who lives in London. She then tells me that her daughter is currently in Bangkok, and I should call her when I get back. When I pointed out that I didn't have the daughter's phone number, mom whips out her phone and reads off the number to me, which I saved in my phone.
I have two more trips with Nat Parks. I'm going north this week and South again next month. Mom tells me that when I go south, I will be near her home, so she will come visit me and bring her daughter. You gotta love Thailand where mom is actively pimping her daughter out.
Being out of Bangkok for two weeks did wonders for my Thai language skills, and I reached the point where I was able to chat up girls for an hour or so before reaching the limits of my vocabulary. I made good progress with a stock-girl at the local grocery store, who looked a lot like an old girlfriend. I think next trip South I will be able to get in her pants.
Two nights before I left, I met a bartender who looked like a playmate centerfold. No time to shag her on this trip, so I got a firm commitment for August. She told me she would be in Bangkok this week on Wednesday and looked expectant, but I wasn't in a position to arrange a rendezvous, so I'll be waiting impatiently for my return trip. I'm sure my blog'll be back on by then, so you'll be able to read all about her after I've intucted her into the Werewolf Fan Club.
View all comments by werewolf
@werewolf: Wow. Good stuff. Meant to ask you about the blog myself, but real life keeps getting in the way…
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
Some superb discussion here, gentlemen. I congratulate you, and I thank you.
Now…. shame on you for fucking little Isaan girls working in massage joints ("legit" or not) and failing to give them a little money!
Gentlemen as enlightened as yourselves are surely capable of having an honest discussion of these matters with any feminine economic migrant from Isaan. Any one of them will tell you that your massage girl was making a bid to become a gik. She wants to be a regular fuck buddy, but Thai-style, which means that you "take care."
This is not to say that you gentlemen are not all very handsome. I am sure that every woman that you fuck sincerely compete to screw you simply because you are truly very debonair.
My point is this: gentlemen as literate and philosophical as yourselves are surely capable of investigating the details of Thai culture. One of these details is simply that it is rude, the height of arrogance, really, to omit to discretely tuck a couple of thousand baht into the purse of a shop girl that you nail, or a massage girl, or a student. They have expenses! Do you have any appreciation of how much it costs to be pretty? Shampoo is not free. Nail polish costs money, as do shoes, clothes, perfume, skin scrub treatments, and all of the other accoutrements of the Thai female of the species.
Show a little class! If the girl is working for a living, and making what? Six thousand baht for the month? Lay a little money on her! I will bet that she is sending money home to mom, probably supporting a child fathered by a piece-of-shit Thai male who stole her virginity, impregnated her, and then bolted.
Here is the rule of thumb: if the girl is not "kept," meaning that she is sponsored, or independently wealthy, then she needs money.
Some of you guys really need to let go of your farang prejudices and get over yourselves. Just because you give a girl money, or buy her gifts, or help her out financially, does not mean that she is a whore. Far from it, in fact.
View all comments by ma91c1an
@ma91c1an: It's not always black and white though. Mochalover, although speaking about coyote girls rather than massage girls, tells the tale of when "one [girl] was actually pissed off when I tried to give her 2000 bht the next morning. She told me in no uncertain terms that she was ‘not a hooker’, but if she was, 2000 bht would be an insult (and she was right)" #
In my little world, a gik is a shag-buddy. A girl with whom one has a mutually beneficial sexual relationship. One of you is horny, so calls the other in order to hook up, if convenient. Of course the guy pays for food, drinks and travel expenses. But he does not directly pay for the sex.
Most of my giks, past and present, are bargirls, so perhaps don't need the extra income as much as a massage girl. So whether I'm right or wrong, you definitely make a good point.
It is, of course, quite possible that I'm misusing the term "gik". Thais use it differently amongst themselves, anyway. I use it as a step somewhere between whore and girlfriend. You're not paying any more, but neither of you are in any way committed to a "relationship" (ugh)…
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
@BBB: I thank you for your courtesy.
I used to believe that gik meant "uncompensated fuck buddy," as well, until I was enlightened by multiple Thai girlfriends. The actual rules of compensation for giks are nebulous, and unique from case to case, but generally speaking, it shows consideration and care to tuck a couple of thousand baht into your gik's purse before she departs in the morning.
It is possible to get quite creative about this whole thing. I used to put my favorite giks on an allowance. One reason I did this was to enable them to budget. They were all uniformly supporting families in Isaan, so I made it clear that I expected them to save a portion of their allowance to cover the inevitable requirements for money that arise from poor families.
There are clearly different rules when consorting with "hi-so" girls. It is incumbent upon the gentleman to know when and how to "take care" of a girl. Some girls will be thrilled to stumble across a mysterious pair of thousand baht notes tucked into the secret pocket in their purse. Others will be outraged. How to know? The personal interview. You have to actually talk to the girls, and get to know them, and the details of their lives. These are economic matters, at heart. In my experience, the only way to understand the subtle distinctions between the way that Thai girls view the subject of "take care" and the way that we farang gentlemen see it is to talk to them about it.
In some cases, your definition is definitely correct. I used to subscribe to the same definition, myself. Over time, I came to appreciate the term gik differently.
View all comments by ma91c1an
Well given that I've yet to receive any complaints from girls who fit the BBB-definition of "gik", I'm not about to start shelling out rounds of 2k all of a sudden.
How about "kuk"? A word I heard for the first time recently, it's apparently a level below "gik".
Regarding sending money home to their kids, I vowed some time ago that I will now only sleep with childless women. It's not just the stretch marks and the tired boobs - it's the mental issues that accompany them.
View all comments by Bangkok Bad Boy
No offense, friend, but that is weak.
Why do you not take a risk and have a chat with the giks that you cherish? If you do not know about their personal circumstances, you should. For a laundry list of reasons.
Even if you put a gik on a 2,000-baht weekly retainer, that buys a lot of Listerine and hair conditioner. You should, of course, pay only what you can afford. This being Bangkok, negotiable rates can be delightfully reasonable. For a girl working a counter in a hotel, having a gik (meaning you) who "takes care" of her to the tune of 5,000 baht a month means that she doubles her salary. Giving a gik 10,000 baht a month means that she can boost the income of her family back in the provinces, and I have yet to meet a girl who did not respond with sincere gratitude and lavish affection to such a gesture.
Keep in mind that funding a gik with an allowance is not purchasing monogamy. Monogamy belongs to the next higher category of relationship, meaning the fan, or actual "girlfriend" (or boyfriend in the case of a male). If you desire the monogamy of a gik, so that you can bareback, or for whatever reason, you had best make certain that your gik understands this in no uncertain terms. A good gik will honestly demur, if she cannot comply. A bad gik will lie. Buyer beware.
It goes without saying that if there is the slightest doubt about the monogamy of a sexual partner, the condoms should not come off. You should both be tested for HIV every three to six months, as well, with results shared with one another. If you are an aficionado of assfucking, ass eating, or even cunnilingus, then keep it simple, keep the condoms on, watch your hygiene, and add Hepatitis testing to your list of things to do.
You should also be explicit about expectations. If you really want a girl to just be a gik, to just be a fuck buddy, end of story, make that clear. She will appreciate the clarity, and it will keep rules and roles straight between the two of you. It will also ensure that she knows that she cannot pitch a hissy fit when she bumps into you at Emporium in the company of another gik from your stable. Believe me, she will be angry and jealous, because she is a Thai lady, but the realization that she is just a gik will keep her in line, most of the time. I have seen ladies be quite bitter under these circumstances, "I am only gik, what can I do?" But it is always desirable to avoid blowups, and for more reasons that meet the eye. Being clear about expectations also works in your favor. If you negotiate monogamy, and your gik betrays the agreement, then you know that you have an untrustworthy scammer on your hands, and it is generally best to terminate the services of such girls, as they will become complicated sooner or later.
Aside from the karmic implications, "taking care" of giks is just the responsible and right thing to do. A gentleman always pays. One way or another.
As for eschewing single mothers…. it is hard to argue with that logic. I will say that many of the most delightful girls that I have known and loved were in fact single mothers, however. They make great companions. One, most Thai men will have nothing to do with them, and a child impairs their eligibility with most farang prospects, as well. Single mothers are often quite grateful to have a regular gik. Two, they have responsibilities, which means that most of them will not be eating yaba and partying until sunrise every day. They will be working, and they will be carrying out their financial obligations to their progeny in ways that the men of Thailand would do well to emulate, the bastards. Three, they are well aware that any relationship with them would entail accommodations with their children, so they are often quite willing to be creative in ways that step outside the bounds of traditional Thai social mores. Four, most women that I have encountered in Bangkok society had their children when they were very young, so the inevitable sequelae of childbirth (stretchmarks, etc) are often minimal. In cases where there are scars or other evidence, girls can be so self-conscious that being a man who sees beyond such physical imperfections can reap one handsome rewards, indeed. Put it in perspective. Back in Farangland, we would none of us think twice about shagging a single mother. In fact, most of us have done it. The tradeoff in Thailand is that a single mother will generally be much nicer, much prettier, and much more affordable. And she will be grateful to have you, even if she is only a gik.
Not sure about the term kuk. I will enquire.
View all comments by ma91c1an
@ma91c1an: A truly great man once commented, perhaps even on this board, that if one could not extract oneself from what he was beginning to see as a cumbersome or troublesome predicament he should consider luring, pulling, cajoling, one-upping, boasting, manipulating etc., as many others as possible into his situation. (That last sentence, for example was a bit troublesome, but I got you to read it
Without the odd freebee, where is the joy?
Without the odd experimental sexual encounter with a frustrated 33-year-old office hottie, where is the serendipity?
How can 3B be 3B without his occasional freebee.
(apologies to Philip Larkin, poet laureate of the kokosphere )
View all comments by Prufrock
it is somewhat amusing to try to understand good girl, bar girl ,gik, or kuk, hi so girls, freelancrs, gogo girl, issan girl ,pattaya creep or whatever, there is no such thing as a good girl plain and simple. unless she is a nun.one way around the problem of weather to offer monery or not or risked being slapped etc ,is offer them money to buy a new phone,just look at there phones and give them money to update it, with a wink of course, it sure beats talking about the elephant in the room ..so to speak, and then no offence is taken,none given. simple
View all comments by eloelo